Electric guitar pickups that worked for acoustic fingerstyle

[pjd3]

Hi there, so here it is.

I began building an electric guitar that is aiming for being an electric baritone guitar for primarily fingerstyle playing, in the true way one would play acoustic fingerstyle.

This is a baritone guitar, Telecaster style, 28 5/8th scale. I've already chosen and purchased a Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell for the Neck, and a Seymour Duncan alnico 5 Lipstick tube pickup for the middle pickup. What I am looking for now is a bridge pickup that will be complimentary for that syle of playing. During Covid, I bought a new Martin and used the hours to learning a selection of songs by Hedges, Stephen Wake, Simpson, and thought it would also be great to have an electric to perform this style of playing.
I'm curious of any of you fingerstyle acoustic players have ever happened upon an electric guitar that translated that style of playing in a way that was pleasing. I'm my case, its primarily the bridge pickup that I'm looking at. The body of this guitar I'm building has a Swamp Ash body and a maple backed neck with an ebony fretboard. I'm picturing a single coil pickup that has good wide responsive dynamics, isn't too thin or twany but is somewhat stringy sounding, sweet and rich.

I'd love to hear about any experiences you had with electrics that worked for this kind of material, and maybe what pickups the guitar had in it.

Thank you!
Best,
Phil

[Steve DeRosa]

Some that I have first-hand listening knowledge of, or have used myself:

• If you have a Strat (or Nashville Tele) drop the middle pickup flush with the pickguard (also deck the tailpiece if it's a Strat) - an old NYC "Key Club" studio players' hack from the early-60's, this provides a nice quasi-acoustic tone in a group arrangement, and can be heard on many recordings from the time;
• The Gretsch Super Hi-lo'Trons fitted to the pre-2022 Korean 5600-Series Electromatics are excellent for fingerstyle, particularly in combination rather than singly - if you can't locate such an instrument (or want this sound from another guitar) inverting the second row of polepieces on a stock-wound Filter'Tron will achieve essentially the same effect;
• An underwound P-90 can get some nice acoustic tones in the neck position, if you roll off the guitar's volume control and/or use the low-gain input (if you have one) on your amp - Lindy Fralin makes a 10% underwound that might be a good candidate...

I understand certain lipstick pickups can also be a good option...

[FrankHudson]

Folk's goals and playing differ so much, there's no guarantees, but when I think of bridge pickups that respond to fingerstyle, I think classic Telecaster saddles and bridge pickup. I think even more so if I was in a baritone tuning. I'd want a tight bass response in that situation. You say you don't want "thin or twangy" -- but with baritone tuning and strings I'm not sure that thin is a danger.

I love P90s, just haven't used them in that low a tuning. I happen to love my Guild Starfire I with Franz style P90s for acoustic style playing, though it's not baritone scale and I don't tune down that low with it. I also keep a Tele with higher tension flatwounds. I rarely fingerpick (or even "hybrid pick") -- but I do cross-pick with my flatpick and get a sound kind of like a player using fingerpicks on acoustic, and these guitars respond well to my acoustic technique while being electric guitars.

In theory the Filtertrons might be good too. Again, no experience there in baritone tunings.

When you say "fingerstyle" are you also thinking body tapping and other percussive effects? If you go with an unpotted pickup and maybe even direct body mounting you might get some interesting effects. Tele bridge pickups can be made to direct mount to the body wood, so that's another reason to consider them.

[pjd3]

Hi, getting back to this project after taking on a couple more - have been working on the pickup mounting plate so, need to get the bridge pickup soon.

What I'm referring to fingerstyle is the nice Celtic style, like Stephen Wake, Tony McManus, Michael Hedges. I'm not interested in tapping or percussive effects, just straight forward fingerpicking in a number of different tunings. During the heavy covid time I sort of fell in love with Celtic Guitar, moreso the ballard and sweeter type songs, that resemble music you might hear from a harp. I even play some classical and I'm looking for pickups that may render that type of music well. I know there is no perfect choices here but, I know there are ones that might not work well, such as pickups that have an abundance of low mids that could make things sound congested and muddy that would dampen subtle nuances. And on the other end of the scale, are pickups that are way too scooped and are boomy and indistinct on the bottom and too thin and snippy on the top. I very well may just be describing a balanced pickup that doesn't give up or put in too much of anything. But lets say, if you were a dedicated acoustic fingerstyle guy, but then you could only play electric now, what bridge pickup would you choose for that application? Something like that.

Thank you,

Phil D.

[RPadTV]

what bridge did you select for your guitar? for example, i bought a Gil Parris GPS, which is an S-type guitar, but has slightly wider string spacing than normal since Gil plays fingerstyle. to get that wider spacing the GPS uses a Wilkinson WVS50K with atypically wide spacing.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by pjd3

Hi there, so here it is.

I began building an electric guitar that is aiming for being an electric baritone guitar for primarily fingerstyle playing, in the true way one would play acoustic fingerstyle.

This is a baritone guitar, Telecaster style, 28 5/8th scale. I've already chosen and purchased a Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell for the Neck, and a Seymour Duncan alnico 5 Lipstick tube pickup for the middle pickup. What I am looking for now is a bridge pickup that will be complimentary for that syle of playing. During Covid, I bought a new Martin and used the hours to learning a selection of songs by Hedges, Stephen Wake, Simpson, and thought it would also be great to have an electric to perform this style of playing.
I'm curious of any of you fingerstyle acoustic players have ever happened upon an electric guitar that translated that style of playing in a way that was pleasing. I'm my case, its primarily the bridge pickup that I'm looking at. The body of this guitar I'm building has a Swamp Ash body and a maple backed neck with an ebony fretboard. I'm picturing a single coil pickup that has good wide responsive dynamics, isn't too thin or twany but is somewhat stringy sounding, sweet and rich.

I'd love to hear about any experiences you had with electrics that worked for this kind of material, and maybe what pickups the guitar had in it.

Thank you!
Best,
Phil

Phil,
There really is no correlation between the style of play & what style of magnetic pickup will work.

I've had my electrics setup basically the same as my acoustics for many years: heavy-ish strings, fat frets, medium action, large necks, etc.

Here's a Warmoth Tele I put together with Pete Biltoft CC pickups, played into my PRRI w/JBL D123 speaker.



The next is a Strat build I put together with DeArmond Dynasonic pickups, typically used in Gretsch guitars. I'm playing through the PRRI bridged into a Fishman Loudbox with the built-in delay.



As long as the instrument is set the way a player prefers it, then it just a matter of the tone being what THAT player enjoys. The end results are the proof of 'does it work', and the player is the only one who needs to have an affirmative response to that question.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[pjd3]

Thank you all for the great feedback,

And love what I'm hearing on your vids Howard, nice of you to post those. And I rather like the sounds of those pickups, they have a certain fullness or thick ness that is nice without being congested or damping subtle details.

Where I won't have the opportunity soon to try a number of pups on a certain guitar, I'm fine with hearing from folks who have discovered a combo of pickup and guitar that has lent to a welcome presentation of a fingerpicking playstyle. I like to make a distinction between "fingerpicking" and "fingerstyle". Often times when "fingerstyle" is mentioned, many will think of the Mark Knofler type of playing but as you all seem to understand I'm referring to acoustic style fingerpicking on an electric.

I have my eye on a hardtail bridge I found on Ebay made of solid brass. Its a hardtail strat type bridge and I have actually already designed the guitar top to fit something like that (anything significantly bigger would bump in to the 3" tree-of-life wooded pendant that is just below it). Yeah, I'm going for visual celtic appointments on this one as well as performance quality.

I just did the math, and the schematic I drew out will allow for 96 distinct coil configurations - when you consider the series/parallel/cutcoil/phase switching conditions I created for this. I was able to do this without making things too messy.

I do Have a serious eye on the seymour duncan Five Two Telecaster bridge pickup up. Having the low 3 strings being all tight stringy and punchy seems welcome while making the higher 3 strings be a little sweeter and less thin. I've owned vintage Tele's so I know how that can be. Plus, it may be a nice departure from the Lipstick tube pickup that will be an inch or so right above it, and, the Humbucker from Hell in the Neck position. It will be interesting to hear how certain combinations play out, like the Humbucker from Hell cut coil in series with the Lipstick or Tele bridge. Or, the Humbucker from Hell in parallel with the Lipstick and Tele in series. All kinds of combos waiting for audition. But, I'm getting way ahead of myself here. I'm still routing out cavities for switches, pendants, appointments, jacks and plates (brass celtic cross for the volume, phase, separate bridge pickups and 4-way pickup switch). Ha, whether its a good guitar in the end or not, it will definately be a fun little conversation piece but, I have some hope for it, or I wouldn't have even starting the project.

Thanks again for hanging with me on this and offering your interesting perspectives. They matter to me until I can begin to develop more of my own,

Best,

Phil Donovan

[rockabilly69]

Many times I will bring my Gretsch 6120 with Dynasonics to my acoustic gigs and play a whole fingerstyle set on it. Does it sound totally acoustic? No, but close, and very musical, and definitely a nice change to give the audience more sonic variety. And, I have the added benefit of the Bigsby! On some songs I prefer it to my acoustic.

The Gretsch is at my studio right now, or I would record something for you to get an idea of what I'm talking about. If my schedule allows, I will try to swing by my studio and bring it home.

[J Patrick]

…I just finished up a new partscaster that I installed a pair of Ronin Foilbucker pickups in…..ultra high fidelity pickups that work really well for acoustic style fingerpicking……clear open articulate and exceptionally well balanced….never muddy or edgy……honey drenched 3D goodness…..crazy expensive but i picked up some used ones and saved a few bucks….I’ve never heard anything like them…..

[neilvg]

I've got two guitars that are just madness for finger style. I don't know if you can easily find the pickups unfortunately. But the info might be helpful:

- 2012 Custom Alembic Little Darling with HGR active pickups.
http://www.alembic.com/prod/littledarling.html

Mine is a custom so I actually had it built with a classical fretboard width and a flatter radius. The pickups get super bright, but are able to be EQ'd with it's onboard filter in such a way as to be very sensitive yet non-fatiguing. It's very revealing and requires good technique, but amazing for fingerstyle and that's why I had it built. I helped Stanley Clarke out with retrieving one of his old basses post-divorce back in the day, and Alembic helped me out with a custom in partial exchange.

Build thread (just for fun):
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=7126.0

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- 2019 PRS Special Semi Hollow with 58/15 MT pickups.

The MT pickups are critical here because they stand for Multi-Tap versus the regular LT's which can be split but not tapped. This gives a more playable versatility to the guitar and keeps the volumes between the two modes feel more equal.

I made a ton of mods though which is what took the guitar over the top for fingerstyle. Link here to PRS forum for post on mods:
https://forums.prsguitars.com/thread...73/post-638826

So basically, I added the pre-amp which was reverse engineered from the super eagle I and II. This makes a huge difference. I also isolated the narrowfield in the middle and wired it so it can be switched between series or parallel. So I can tap any or all of the 3 pickups separately, and I can activate the pre-amp on/off and the bright toggle all independently.

The guitar becomes a beast for versatility. Can get mid 70's era Jerry Garcia tones (all eras up through to the 90's) all the way to Clapton esque and Allman brothers style tones.

But what I really love is the fingerstyle sounds. With the middle narrowfield especially, I can pop it in parallel and activate the pre-amp and bright and it approaches alembic territory, but with the sound and feel of the PRS semi-hollow. I can blend it with the neck pickup and I'm in heaven.

===
- Speakers are the most important thing!

But since we're talking pickups and hence largely sound and not necessarily guitar ergonomics.. I'd say that your speaker amp/cab combo makes a HUGE difference tone wise and in terms of it approximating acoustics. Acoustic guitars are basically full range instruments... duh. But electric guitar cabs are voiced to be fairly specific. They emphasize a bit of the lows (but not too low), the lower mid-range and then mainly the mids and some particular areas of the upper mids selectively (this is where a lot of the character specific to various speaker styles come into play), and then a huge rolloff above 4-5khz. This is what primarily makes electric guitars good for distortion, because we all dislike fizzy distortion. At least most of us. But that top end is what can make cleans sound incredible.

The solution? Use a full range cab (open back/birch)/speaker combo - like the JBL D123's (my favorite) or in the 60/70's they used JBL D120's which have more volume output capabilities. These completely transform the range and tone of electric guitar. I also use a McIntosh MC250 stereo power amp. I run my rig in stereo whenever I can with two baltic birch cabs with D123's in them - open back. The McIntosh power amp fed by a Sarno SMS preamp (a fender twin circuit) gives me the transparency but also the tonal options suitable for guitar.

When I want to go for distortion, I use an EQ that becomes active when I activate any dirt pedals above a certain threshold, and that EQ is voiced to approximate the curve of a more typical guitar speaker such as a Celestion 12.

===
With a frequency curve like this coming out of your average guitar speaker - your never going to get stellar 'acoustic tones / fingerstyle tones' regardless of your pickups. You'll end up making choices to fight this curve, instead of dealing with the real issue.


===

Alrighty then... that was an amble and a bramble... thanks for the time if you read this.

[rmp]

I'm getting a lot of good stuff from my Godin Kingpin with P90s and flatwound strings.

This guitar has kind of surprised me.

When I first got it, I found it a bit fatiguing to play, with the stock 12 gauge round wounds)


Once I put a lighter set of flatwounds on it (10s actually, 11s were just a bit too tight for my small sized old hands), it just really started working for me.

[neilvg]

Originally Posted by rmp

I'm getting a lot of good stuff from my Godin Kingpin with P90s and flatwound strings.

This guitar has kind of surprised me.

When I first got it, I found it a bit fatiguing to play, with the stock 12 gauge round wounds)


Once I put a lighter set of flatwounds on it (10s actually, 11s were just a bit too tight for my small sized old hands), it just really started working for me.

I love the feel of flats and how low the action can get without buzz. Its a shame they die so quickly and in general have a tone that tends to be dark and sullen. Especially as they die. But they feel wonderful especially on fingers. A guitar that can go bright and articulate along with a full range speaker setup makes flatwounds a really cool and unique option on electric guitar.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by neilvg

I love the feel of flats and how low the action can get without buzz. Its a shame they die so quickly and in general have a tone that tends to be dark and sullen. Especially as they die. But they feel wonderful especially on fingers. A guitar that can go bright and articulate along with a full range speaker setup makes flatwounds a really cool and unique option on electric guitar.

Agreed...

I think I like the tone I get better out of my Fender Acoustasonic JR than I do my Fender Deluxe Reverb

[pjd3]

Hi all,

With 10 or more projects underway I just finished up the pickup mounting plates for the pickups I decided to start with and those are:

Neck - Dimarzio Humbucker from Hell. Low DCR and inductance and separate coil wires - has a rather stringy and almost acoustic sound by some or the clips and vids I've seen.

Bridge - There are actually 2 bridge pickups. 1. Five-two Seymour Duncan Tele bridge. I liked how the A2 softened the 3 top strings - didn't want melody strings getting to spikey or thin when finger plucked. 2. A Seymour Duncan Lipstick pickup 1.5" above the Tele bridge. I picked this pup for 2 reasons - to be a very different take on the bridge position plus, it is rather low DCR and inductance which might allow it to blend more favorably with the myriad of phase, parallel and series switching options I've provided in the schematic I created for this (counted over 90 discreet coil configurations that are possible).

So, this will be a start. If something isn't working it can be changed out for something else without too too much pain.

Body is just about complete, now to get to attaching Fretboard to neck base - trussrod channel is all set.

Thanks again.

PJD