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  #226  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:23 AM
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Marcus Wong Marcus Wong is offline
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Hey guys, I'm not a moderator but I believe this statement still stands. Perhaps PMs are in order. Would be a pity to crush an outlet of someone's passions and dreams by having the thread closed, regardless of who's right/wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewpartrick View Post
Frankly I agree. If the OP is having to melodramaticly decide between buying a decent set of nut files or paying the rent, then the opinion of a bunch of AGF mavens is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Littlesmith, I've been following this thread for quite a while now. It's obvious that when people make suggestions your stock response has been that you cannot afford the proper tools. I'm not saying that's not the case; what I am saying is that asking the same question and getting the same response over a one year period is a bit like banging ones head against a wall, in that it feels so good when you stop. It's also starting to sound like an extended advertisement for some sort of online Bitcoin/gofundme campaign, and within the bounds of this sub-forum, is against AGF policy.

This is the final warning to keep this thread civil. Posters, the OP probably isn't going to take your advice. OP, the posters are probably going to tell you something you don't want to hear. Please share your progress with us, as we're all interested at this point in the outcome, but let's please for the love of Pete stop the bickering, otherwise I will be forced to close it.

Thanks for reading,
Matthew for the mods
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  #227  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:39 AM
JJI JJI is offline
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Default I get your drive towards your building...

Can't say I understand why you continue to push forward here...I really do admire your drive but this thread has been a fight for months. Who's fault that is is irrelevant...
  #228  
Old 03-29-2016, 08:53 AM
John Morciglio John Morciglio is offline
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John, my innovations are not a dilusion, nobody in this space is using aero space epoxy resin with the resin infusion technique in a composite unibody (they put cutout scraps with wetlay, except Emerald guitars, those are very good), nobody has 0.6 millimeter thick carbon fiber bracings, nobody is using an aero space silicone heating blanket to post cure the matrix, the embedded soundboard is my own invention as well as a carbon fiber support frame, i am the first to bring QR codes on an instrument that you can scan, and it will take you to a dedicated website to authenticate your specific guitar. It will even have a 3d model of your specific instrument, that you can rotate and even view in virtual reality. The bridge component that holds the string ball ends is coming from under the soundboard so it`s impossible for the bridge to fly off. And then there is the proprietairy production system that allows 1 person to make 20 units per month so that`s 10 innovations right there, but i am only competing with myself. I try to make it as best as i can, i don`t care what companies are doing.

Will only reply to the first sentence in this answer;

Resin infusion is COMMON? "aero-space" epoxy resins?
My supplier has Boeing, Roushe Racing, Ford, etc. (Resin Services)
On bikes when I use high temp resin I get the "Boeing Military Spec"

Also did NOT see any of these design or build techniques used on previous prototypes.

Having a grand plan is GOOD, now implement it.

Thought your revolutionary IDEA was using carbon in the back, wood in the front.

I built one using the Stew-mac AAAA archtop plates and all wood (still use rosewood and ebony finger boards on most builds. (carbon boards feel like painted maple) compared to rosewood on a Fender, (to me).

Thought it should be "warmer, maybe more projection from the top vibrating more"
Sounded a "little" warmer but was not really any better or worse than a carbon top?
Takes longer to build and top cost way more.
Even started building a "dupli-carver".

It sold rather quickly on consignment. It was still thought the all-carbon builds were cooler and would move faster? Moved to Denver since so pulled everything from the MI stores that were not pre-paid.
Stores are more likely to move stuff they have paid for.
Consignment costs them nothing.

The rest are all design ideas that have to be exercised?
Like the "could have sold my last great invention for a million bucks" ???



Those plugs/molds were built in 2011.

"vacuum infusion/resin injection" is just another "process". Like any other there are pros and cons, takes more raw material/longer time to set up, etc.

Pros are; easy to place fibers where and how you want them, longer time to place, etc.

I only use vac. infusion on backs/sides/necks. Top plate is a standard wet lay-up and removes MORE resin so, better material to resin ratio.

Does NOT (by itself) in ANY WAY, make a better part.

Last edited by CoolerKing; 03-31-2016 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Rule #1
  #229  
Old 03-29-2016, 10:02 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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John, that mold (and part) looks nice.

Soundclips of the 3 prototypes (that did have some features i described) can be found here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msvlzbOaDgQ

Some things are indeed not yet implemented because i only got this funding on March 1st, before this it was nickel and dimes.

About a carbon soundboard, i have never heard a guitar with carbon back, sides and neck and then a carbon soundboard that had warmth, that`s why i use a wooden soundboard. Carbon is unsuitable for a soundboard in my humble opinion (it might work on an all mahogany body). You would not put a rock hard maple soundboard on a maple body, if the body is hard, the top should be soft (clarity + warmth).

"Top plate is a standard wet lay-up and removes MORE resin so, better material to resin ratio."

Resin infusion has a much better resin to fabric ratio then hand layup.

I thought about a dupli carver for the wooden neck insert, but im gonna use the same router bit that shapes the plug for the mold to route the neck inserts, so the curvature match. Still a pretty nifty machine to have a dupli carver....
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Last edited by littlesmith; 03-29-2016 at 10:16 AM.
  #230  
Old 03-29-2016, 10:13 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Littlesmith, this is a cool project, and thanks for sharing the triumphs and the tribulations.

I suggest that you make use of the "ignore" function. On the top blue bar on the left is the User CP (control panel). User CP has an "edit ignore list" function. You simply type in the user name that you wish to ignore, and their posts no longer appear on your screen - while you are logged in. Unfortunately, I've needed this function and have about 6-8 names on it. Otherwise I would be long gone from AGF. As it is, my visitation level here has dropped way down.
Thank you, i wish i knew this 2 years ago. I almost deleted this whole thread. These guitars are like my children so i take it very personally.
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Last edited by littlesmith; 03-29-2016 at 10:19 AM.
  #231  
Old 03-29-2016, 11:56 AM
rogthefrog rogthefrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesmith View Post
I know that not everybody is the same,so it`s very unfortunate that you have to read that, i keep posting here for the handfull of people that care and get what i`m doing. And you are right, in my ideal company i will just build and somebody else is doing the social elements. It`s not a company right now, just a guy trying to develop an amzing guitar model. I know i am abrasive, but the product will be very nice.
You may be well served by the "ignore" function on this board. Go to the "User CP" link at the top, click "Edit ignore list", and add people there. Here's a direct link:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...?do=ignorelist

This way their posts won't show and it'll save your energy.

Edit: already mentioned earlier by someone else, sorry.
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Last edited by rogthefrog; 03-29-2016 at 12:02 PM.
  #232  
Old 03-30-2016, 06:11 AM
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I AM curious how this turns out. And again as I've stated, nothing ventured, nothing gained. But this is starting to remind me of THIS SONG.

Chris

Hey Man, There CLEARLY an acoustic in it
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  #233  
Old 03-30-2016, 08:19 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Jig to level the edges of the soundboard halves to join them.



With finetuning the straightness.



It can go up or down.



Made a lightbox to see if light comes through.



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  #234  
Old 03-30-2016, 09:57 AM
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I'm a fan of innovative efforts. Whether this achieves the final results you hope for or not remains to be seen, but I applaud your perseverance and willingness to push the envelope. Hope that it turns out better than you expected, or at least that you learn enough from the process to continue to refine it and grow from there. It is very hard to be so wide open to scrutiny. I'm not an engineer, and have nothing to add to (or detract from) your ideas. Just wanted to put out some encouragement for pushing forward. Do you have any idea when you expect a completed guitar?
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  #235  
Old 03-30-2016, 03:19 PM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikealpine View Post
I'm a fan of innovative efforts. Whether this achieves the final results you hope for or not remains to be seen, but I applaud your perseverance and willingness to push the envelope. Hope that it turns out better than you expected, or at least that you learn enough from the process to continue to refine it and grow from there. It is very hard to be so wide open to scrutiny. I'm not an engineer, and have nothing to add to (or detract from) your ideas. Just wanted to put out some encouragement for pushing forward. Do you have any idea when you expect a completed guitar?
Thank you. It is difficult to say how long it will take witch accuracy. I can do some things as a series, and some things are bottle necked by 1 operation.

I am still working on the mastershape that is the basis for the negative mold. This will take another month or something.

When that is all done im gonna spend something like 2 weeks on body production only. When they are made i will make a box that holds the body and an adjustable flat plane for the routerfoot to level the guitar, this line is the top of the soundboard as well as the bottom of the fretboard when you look from the sideview.

When i have 8 bodies that are up to spec, i`ll make a template thats fits in every body to route the soundboards with. The soundboard aspect of my produuction system seems to work, i am now flattening and joining 1 soundboard per day. I`ll just put 1 coat of clear on it to protect it for now. I am too scared to route the rosettes in now, because i want it to be dead center following the body arch.

This is a development phase, so making the jigs takes a lot longer then an operation, but it`s an investment for the future to spend time now to get it right.

So long story short : i don`t know how long it will take. If i have unit 1 in 4 months, that will be fine with me.
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Last edited by littlesmith; 03-31-2016 at 05:38 AM.
  #236  
Old 03-31-2016, 05:41 AM
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Neck roughcut on the bandsaw.



Routing the neck edge.



Routing the neck pocket.



Neck pocket routed.



Perfect allignment on the polycarbonate master template.





Headstock wood stack.

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  #237  
Old 03-31-2016, 06:14 AM
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I've gone back and edited several posts in the past two pages.

Asking reasonable questions to the poster is expected, as long as the tone of the feedback is inquisitive and constructive. This is different from asking the same thing eight or nine times, which some posters in this thread have done.

The Acoustic Guitar Forum is supposed to be an inclusive place, and I will do everything I can to keep this thread open as long as possible. I think the OP has done an admirable job attempting to maintain a positive tone towards legitimate questions as well as trolling attacks.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to temporarily ban people for repeated attacks, and it's basically up to the discretion of the moderators. Please keep this in mind when posting in this thread in the future.
  #238  
Old 03-31-2016, 06:30 AM
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Mathew:

I agree with this post. Let the guy roll and let's see what happens. To the extent that people's expectations and assumptions are challenged - GREAT!

It worked for some guy name Antonio De Torres. Not that this will work, but maybe it will. Give the man wide birth in a supportive way and let's all enjoy the ride!

Chris



Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewpartrick View Post
I've gone back and edited several posts in the past two pages.

Asking reasonable questions to the poster is expected, as long as the tone of the feedback is inquisitive and constructive. This is different from asking the same thing eight or nine times, which some posters in this thread have done.

The Acoustic Guitar Forum is supposed to be an inclusive place, and I will do everything I can to keep this thread open as long as possible. I think the OP has done an admirable job attempting to maintain a positive tone towards legitimate questions as well as trolling attacks.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to temporarily ban people for repeated attacks, and it's basically up to the discretion of the moderators. Please keep this in mind when posting in this thread in the future.
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The Acoustics

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Tom Doerr - M/D. Braz under Red (due 2020)
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  #239  
Old 03-31-2016, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesmith View Post

So long story short : i don`t know how long it will take. If i have unit 1 in 4 months, that will be fine with me.
Sounds like a reasonable and solid plan. Looking forward to additional reports of progress. Best wishes for success!!
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  #240  
Old 04-01-2016, 05:16 AM
littlesmith littlesmith is offline
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Thanks guys.

To clarify : I do not think my methods are better then anybody`s. If you take 1000 luthiers, you will see a 1000 methods to do the same thing, and that is wonderful to me. People build their own jigs, copy other jigs and modify them. You go foreward and learn what works for you personally or doesnt work.

I am just doing what works for me.

The big soulless factorys should disapear and small luthiers should flourish. I have a tremendous respect for wooden guitar builders, and I`m speaking to luthiers who build all wood acoustic guitars by themselves without employees.

I am hearing it is difficult to stay a float in these tough economic times. If they sell 1 per month they are happy. I am too scared to start a business in 2016 with all wooden guitars, build 1 per month and hope somebody buys it.

That is the primary reason why i have designed a system with a higher capacity per person per month. A composite unibody (back, sides , neck + headstock) takes 3 hours to make (+ 24 hours room temperature curing +15 hours heat curing).

I do not have to tell wooden acoustic gutiar builders who are reading this how long it takes to thickness the back and sides, bend the sides, glue the components on, shape the neck etc ( i would guess 2 to 3 weeks). I think wooden acoustic guitars are beautifull and i `m not trying to replace them. Wooden acoustic guitars will never ever disapear. I simply believe it`s economically unviable in 2016 to start a business in The Netherlands that makes 1 unit per month. The cheapest space in my area is a 14000 Euro bill for 1 year, and that`s only the space. I would have to sell 2 or 3 wooden gutiars per month just to pay bills.

I may click ignore on somebodys name from now on if i don`t like the vibe of the message, but I also would like to say i feel no ill will towards anybody on this site, and i wish to live life without enemys. I wish everybody well and i respect everybodys buildig methods.

Koen.
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