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Old 02-22-2020, 12:24 PM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Default Aura VT Blend

Here's a quick clip of the Martin D-18E Modern Deluxe. I didn't spend any real time with EQ but it sounded good to me on-stage. Maybe a little light in the bass. Aura VT Blend was set to approx 50 UST / 50 Aura. I started with the tone at 100% and nudged it a little lower a couple times during the song.



Audio was captured by a Saramonic SmartMic attached to my camera. I'd love to hear what you guys think. 👍
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Old 02-22-2020, 01:10 PM
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Hi Maury,

* I jus' dig you doin' Eagles bro, your vox nail it! ...As far as the VTA-B, I've demo'd this pickup many times thru my system (Loudbox Perfomer) and while it sounded nice, it just did not have the beef so to speak. I think they sound on the thin side when plug n play. Not as bad as the VTE which I don't care for at all. The VTA-B has a bit more goin' for it.

* This vid did lack bottom end and low mids imo, but your wonderful playing and voice keep the attention of my ears more than the subtle lack of low end in the guitar's tone.

Brother you rock!

eric
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Old 02-22-2020, 03:52 PM
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Chriscom Chriscom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaurysMusic View Post
Here's a quick clip of the Martin D-18E Modern Deluxe. I didn't spend any real time with EQ but it sounded good to me on-stage. Maybe a little light in the bass. Aura VT Blend was set to approx 50 UST / 50 Aura. I started with the tone at 100% and nudged it a little lower a couple times during the song.



Audio was captured by a Saramonic SmartMic attached to my camera. I'd love to hear what you guys think. 👍
Nice playing. I think you've nailed it; it sounds good, but a bit light on the low end. I think it's really hard to have beefy acoustic low end without sounding boomy or muddled, and so much depends on the PA as well. One thing for sure: It sound very airy--which I like--there's no doubt that's an acoustic guitar!
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Old 02-22-2020, 04:24 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Sounds decent, Maury! Given the song, there is bass when you hit the bottom string. This sounds better than the Aura VT Enhance, which I've had and thought needed some outboard EQ enhancement to sound decent. I'd consider buying the Aura VT Mic Blend to install in either my Martin D-18 or Larrivee D-40M.
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Old 02-23-2020, 01:53 PM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Thanks for the kind words, guys! I look forward to a 2nd try with this pup. Maybe at Friday's full band gig.
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Old 02-23-2020, 02:22 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Sounds nice! I don't fully get how this is all that new though? I watched the Martin/Fishman video and they are pushing this as revolutionary but isn't it the same as all previous aura systems where you blend in as much of the image as you want? It seems like all they did was streamline previous on board aura systems from users having 3-4 image options down to the best one. It sounds like the 100% blend is just the spot on the spectrum di for example where most users set the blend (40-50%). It does sound really nice but I would be more inclined to just install a Matrix aftermarket pickup and use the spectrum for more options.

I agree that it can be a bit light on the low end but that seems to be one drawback of imaging/IR. What I tend to do is find the blend spot where my guitar is starting to sound more like a mic, leave it there and then use something like the Baggs Session to add in a bit of warmth/low end. The Fishman images can be a bit bright as well. I do like on the Spectrum how you can go "global" eq that works for eq'ing the pickup and image.
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Old 02-23-2020, 06:09 PM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Sounds nice! I don't fully get how this is all that new though? I watched the Martin/Fishman video and they are pushing this as revolutionary but isn't it the same as all previous aura systems where you blend in as much of the image as you want? It seems like all they did was streamline previous on board aura systems from users having 3-4 image options down to the best one. It sounds like the 100% blend is just the spot on the spectrum di for example where most users set the blend (40-50%). It does sound really nice but I would be more inclined to just install a Matrix aftermarket pickup and use the spectrum for more options.

I agree that it can be a bit light on the low end but that seems to be one drawback of imaging/IR. What I tend to do is find the blend spot where my guitar is starting to sound more like a mic, leave it there and then use something like the Baggs Session to add in a bit of warmth/low end. The Fishman images can be a bit bright as well. I do like on the Spectrum how you can go "global" eq that works for eq'ing the pickup and image.
This 2020 incarnation is a high definition version of the Aura imaging. The end result is a better sounding mic image, and the fact that you can dial 0-100% of it is another improvement over the recent versions.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2020, 01:13 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I agree that it can be a bit light on the low end but that seems to be one drawback of imaging/IR.
When you make IR yourself, low end is usually too much. That's why Tonedexter (regular slots) or Baggs Soundscape (automated EQ) had to develop a strategy to get rid of it.

Fishman wrote:
Quote:
Impulse control. The Helmholtz resonance created by the chamber and soundhole can be emulated by a simple digital IIR filter (infinite impulse response), often referred to as a “biquad.” It’s easy to create via DSP and requires little processing power. (This type of filter can be implemented in analog, but is often hard to tune properly.)

Emulating an instrument’s radiating properties is more complicated. Still, a DSP FIR (finite impulse response) filter is perfect for the job. This filter can have thousands of taps, letting it precisely track fine changes in frequency response and correct phase independently of magnitude. It can replicate the subtle coloration of various microphone types and positions, something impossible with analog filters.
https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...digital-divide

It means that Fishman approach is slightly different from TD or Baggs. Everyone uses FIR convolution (like Cab IR or IR reverb) to correct the response of the guitar+pickup. The low end is handled differently:
  • Tonedexter has its own strategy that is not revealed in the patent. Reading the patent, one may infer they treat it at the FIR filter level. [JonFields45 approach is similar]
  • Baggs Soundscape uses IIR PEQs that are tuned to the guitar resonant frequencies to tame the low-end. [As I do]
  • Fishman "seems" to separate the low end from the high end. The low end would be handled by a biquad (PEQ-like filter) and the rest of the spectrum by the FIR filter
The Fishman strategy seems to result in bass weak results. But those are not related to IR/Image in general. Actually it is the opposite.

Why does an acoustic FIR filter boost the low end?

A pickup does not sens the air moving in the box of the guitar. The main bass contribution comes from the "woofy" resonance coming from the soundhole. Actually the soundhole works as a speaker bass-reflex port and gives that low-end response. Moreover pickups are designed with the purpose of not sensing this "woofy" resonance in order to prevent feedback. When you train your IR, the computer finds this "woofy" resonance in the mic track and not in the pickup track, so it builds a huge boost around 100 Hz to artificially recreate it. This huge boost has to be tamed later on by the previously introduced strategies.

Note that in the case of Fishman, he probably trains the IR with a high-pass filter in order to avoid this problem and add a PEQ slight boost in the low end to recreate the "woofy" ness. Since it is probably a fixed filter for all guitar Aura images, there is good change that it is a mild boost. Note that it would be a very smart approach since it enables to use shorter IRs which would have make sens in the early 2000s when they developed the pedal with the DSP power available.

my 2 cents,
Cuki
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:30 PM
MaurysMusic MaurysMusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
When you make IR yourself, low end is usually too much. That's why Tonedexter (regular slots) or Baggs Soundscape (automated EQ) had to develop a strategy to get rid of it.

Fishman wrote:


https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...digital-divide

It means that Fishman approach is slightly different from TD or Baggs. Everyone uses FIR convolution (like Cab IR or IR reverb) to correct the response of the guitar+pickup. The low end is handled differently:
  • Tonedexter has its own strategy that is not revealed in the patent. Reading the patent, one may infer they treat it at the FIR filter level. [JonFields45 approach is similar]
  • Baggs Soundscape uses IIR PEQs that are tuned to the guitar resonant frequencies to tame the low-end. [As I do]
  • Fishman "seems" to separate the low end from the high end. The low end would be handled by a biquad (PEQ-like filter) and the rest of the spectrum by the FIR filter
The Fishman strategy seems to result in bass weak results. But those are not related to IR/Image in general. Actually it is the opposite.

Why does an acoustic FIR filter boost the low end?

A pickup does not sens the air moving in the box of the guitar. The main bass contribution comes from the "woofy" resonance coming from the soundhole. Actually the soundhole works as a speaker bass-reflex port and gives that low-end response. Moreover pickups are designed with the purpose of not sensing this "woofy" resonance in order to prevent feedback. When you train your IR, the computer finds this "woofy" resonance in the mic track and not in the pickup track, so it builds a huge boost around 100 Hz to artificially recreate it. This huge boost has to be tamed later on by the previously introduced strategies.

Note that in the case of Fishman, he probably trains the IR with a high-pass filter in order to avoid this problem and add a PEQ slight boost in the low end to recreate the "woofy" ness. Since it is probably a fixed filter for all guitar Aura images, there is good change that it is a mild boost. Note that it would be a very smart approach since it enables to use shorter IRs which would have make sens in the early 2000s when they developed the pedal with the DSP power available.

my 2 cents,
Cuki
Wow, that's nothing short of fascinating.
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:31 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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A bit off topic but one neat thing with the aura spectrum that I don't think a lot of people use is the global eq setting. Basically the eq is applied to both the pickup and image. I tend to find the images have a very hifi quality to them and the more I blend in, the more my tone becomes bright and then. If I switch to global and turn down the treble a bit, the image is smoothed out along with my Matrix and the tone is much more even.
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