What is the quality really like in these new Chinese Acoustics...

[JayMc]

Hey People,

I am purchasing a guitar for my son and I am looking at these new Chinese made Sigma's and Tokai's...

I have a great love for the older Japanese made Tokai's an Sigma's. I have been chatting with the Tokai factory in Hamamatsu an the Guy is telling me the quality is good, although I have heard that there are some quality guitars coming out of China in the last few years I remain skeptical.
I would like to get the skinny on it from the experts an without bias ;-)

I have recently played a Mahogany Sigma with a Spruce top in a shop and I have to say I was really surprised, it actually sounded better than most the expensive ones we had been playing... (I wont mention brand name as I don't want to start a heated debate lol)... Let's suffice it to say I think sometimes people are just buying certain expensive guitars because of marketing instead of using their ears.

So I am interested to hear your thoughts on this. . Did I just get lucky with the Sigma I played, I do think it had far better sounding strings on it for one which can make a huge difference IMO... But when I told the guy in the shop what I thought, well he got very upset and myself an my son both agreed that I had struck a nerve lol... although he agreed it was an amazing sounding guitar for the price (it was like 270 Euro I couldn't believe the price the others were in the thousands) he got upset at me saying it sounded better than the deer ones but did not disagree with me...

He didn't deny it sounded better but instead told me that "The expensive ones would sound better than the Sigma in five years" to which I replied "Well they don't today"... I don't want to have to wait five years for a guitar to sound good !!

I think the Sigma they had might of have had Earthwood 80/20 Bronze or something very similar... they don't last that long but really sound amazing IMO. . The others had a coated string I think he said Elixer's not sure which, they actually felt looser an softer to the touch but also quieter.

Anyway this got me thinkin if the quality is in the Sigma's is not in the Chinese Tokai's I wonder, which brings me to my final point ya cannot get any new Rosewood back an side Sigma's at the minute anyway that I can find but there are Rosewood Tokai's available an cheap at that !

My son is guitar mad at the minute he is turning 15 this next btw... but he has gone from mad into the electric an done a full 180 to falling in love with the sound of the acoustic which I am very pleased with I wanna get him somethin that will hook him good an proper but I don't wanna break the bank etc as he may loose interest, teen age'rs an all that...

Thank in advance for sharing your wisdom in this matter....all help is greatly appreciated.

As usual wishing yis all the best of everything, cheers,
Jay

[L20A]

There are some great guitars being built in China right now.
Lots of choices.
Try to play as many as you can as they all have their own voices.

Some top contenders in my opinion are Washburn, Alvarez, Eastman, Blueridge and Guild imports.
Of course as always, Yamaha is well worth trying.

Even some brands that I was never impressed with like Fender, Epiphone and Recording King are making very nice guitars now.

You will be able to find very good guitars starting at the $200.00 mark and up.
Be sure to get a good hard case to protect your new guitar.
Guitar Center has nice hard cases starting at $60.00.

[Silly Moustache]

Eastman are really making very fine guitars that seriously challenge the likes of Gibson and Martin.

[Jaden]

I was recently at a shop that had Chinese made Sigma copies of the 000-15m and HD-28(!). I don’t think these are available in the U.S.

Suffice it to say my 000-15m was judged equal in weight to the Sigma, and the shop owner formerly who had been prejudiced against Chinese made copies (labelled accordingly, not fraudulent) is no longer. I think he’s been converted and I wonder about the future of Martin sales outside of the U.S. considering the Sigmas are selling at 1/3rd the price or less.

[SpruceTop]

Blueridge and Eastman are making really good-quality guitars regardless of the price!

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by JayMc

I am purchasing a guitar for my son and I am looking at these new Chinese made Sigma's and Tokai's...

I have a great love for the older Japanese made Tokai's an Sigma's.

Not sure what one has to do with the other. Two different countries and cultures entirely.

Originally Posted by JayMc

Let's suffice it to say I think sometimes people are just buying certain expensive guitars because of marketing instead of using their ears.

There are people who cannot tell a 1955 Chateau Petrus Pomerol from a bottle of cheap chianti.
There are people who cannot tell an original Van Gogh from an art student's copy.
There are people who cannot tell a Steinway grand from a bar room upright.
One can live a very happy life not knowing the difference; however, there is no fault in being able to discern between finer things and their lesser copies. It takes time to gain an expert's appreciation for anything ...guitars included. The shot you're taking at those who have gained that expertise and appreciation is ill-informed.

[AZLiberty]

Quality generally means manufacturing consistency and the statistical confidence that the product meets specification. (and that it will continue to do so for the expected lifetime of the product)

CNC milling machines and polishing robots don't care if they are being run by American or Chinese workers. To that end, most of the Chinese manufactured guitars exhibit excellent quality. Consistent manufacture, fit, finish etc.

Whether you like the way they sound is a completely different matter. This has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with design.

For example, I think the Chinese built Guilds are over-braced. But if one plays with a fairly heavy flat-pick it probably wouldn't matter at all.

Most of the Alvarez line has scalloped bracing and is more responsive as a result. I like them, others might not.

[Paddy1951]

An honest answer to your question is that the quality of MIC guitars is all over the place. And sometimes, I think people forget that the Japanese made guitars of the 70s were that way too.

It kind of comes down to what or whos standard the guitar is being made to.

It is not unlike other products being made in China.

Look at Apple products. Generally, very high quality, MIC, to the quality level Apple sets.

I cannot speak to the specific brands you mentioned. Some companies, US or Japanese, job out their guitars to a variety of Chinese manufacturers. These can be excellent. These can be poor.

Other companies, I am told anyway, have established their own factories in China.

Most acoustic guitars that are made today take advantage of the latest technologies. CNC, for example. It may not be as romantic as the notion of a craftsman shaping a guitar neck by hand. But it is certaily faster and more consistent.

There are some very good to excellent guitars coming out of China, IMO.

Besides the brands you mention, there are many other brands. Some with US names like Guild, with the Westerly Series, or Japanese Yamaha with high value guitars.

Then there are many relatively new names that are good like Blueridge and Breedlove and Seagull (Canadian made) and continuations of other brands like Alvarez, Ibanez.

Then, there is a terrific used market where you can get much guitar for your bucks.

Any purchase you make should have lots of research behind it. Both online and especially hands on.

Establish a price range. Determine how serious your son is. You can get a fine Yamaha for a bit over $200.00 if you are unsure how long he might stay with things. You can spend double that and get even more guitar.

Check out lots of guitars. Take recommendations as friendly gestures but not absolute.

Be patient. Have fun.

Yes, there are well made Chinese made guitars.

[JayMc]

@jim1969
I actually wasn't taking a shot at anyone, I tried to be as diplomatic as I could, I did say "some people...." and I also partially blamed the strings on it too :-)

I genuinely was also shocked myself at the quality of this Chinese guitar which is what got me to wondering and eventually led me to posting this thread inquiring about the general quality etc...

I am very happy to hear that as I suspected (or hoped even) it seams that Today's Chinese Guitar's are akin to yesterday's Japanese Guitars quality wise... Also it is great to have a cheap quality alternative for people who just don't have the budget to buy the real thing...

I am delighted with you guy's feedback and thanks to all.. I am going to buy that Rosewood Sigma btw for my son based on what I have heard. I'm sure he will cherish it, an I hope he falls in love with the sound.

I am going to have a good look at those other brands you guy's mentioned don't worry about that and thanks btw... I am infatuated with guitars... I love the Rosewood sound I am thinking of buying a Jumbo with a wide Nut to accommodate my large hands & fingers.

Has anyone hear tried the new Chinese Made AAA Spruce Top / Rosewood Back and Sides, Tokai's btw ? They have some stunning looking OM-45 an D-45... the CE185 Tria has an interesting/unusual pickup in it..

Cheers,
Jay


Edit:
@Paddy1951
Thanks Mate... I appreciate your intelligent and detailed response.. I am gonna spend 400/maybe 500 Euro's.. He is fanatical... atm anyway. I hope he sticks with it. He has so far anyway, it is almost two years now. He has a great love for music and guitars. It is a make or break time at his age as soon he will be distracted by life.. I hope I can install a love great enough to withstand all it's distractions throughout the years :-)

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Not sure what one has to do with the other. Two different countries and cultures entirely.


There are people who cannot tell a 1955 Chateau Petrus Pomerol from a bottle of cheap chianti.
There are people who cannot tell an original Van Gogh from an art student's copy.
There are people who cannot tell a Steinway grand from a bar room upright.
One can live a very happy life not knowing the difference; however, there is no fault in being able to discern between finer things and their lesser copies. It takes time to gain an expert's appreciation for anything ...guitars included. The shot you're taking at those who have gained that expertise and appreciation is ill-informed.

I fully understand your comparisons, however, there is no harm in sipping a rustic wine whilst contemplating a print of a painting, or enjoying a good tunre played on a honky tonk piano.

I play mostly foreign made guitars (Collings, Martin, Santa Cruz etc.,) and I also run an acoustic music club where I see increasingly more people playing on Eastman, Faith, and Blueridge, and as we only amplify with a large condenser mic through a mixer with no EQ, to ensure tonal integrity. I would say that the more recent Eastmans that I've heard are remarkably impressive, and Faith guitars, a close second.

I have also heard imperfectly balanced (budget) Martins and, frankly, some tonally distasteful modern Gibsons.

The tone of an acoustic guitar is a combination of appropriate materials, and sound, consistent workmanship. This was very much developed in Europe and the USA, but whilst post war products were often shoddy, the Chinese and Japanese have been making fine instruments for many years and to my mind there is no reason why such nations should be regarded as of inferior quality just because they can make them at competitive prices, and no, they aren't working in "sweatshops"

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I fully understand your comparisons, however, there is no harm in sipping a rustic wine whilst contemplating a print of a painting, or enjoying a good tunre played on a honky tonk piano.

No, there truly is not. But there's no good reason to be dismissive of those who can tell the difference between A and B.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by JayMc

@jim1969
I actually wasn't taking a shot at anyone, I tried to be as diplomatic as I could, I did say "some people...." and I also partially blamed the strings on it too :-)

I can't speak to your intent so I'll take you at your word and chalk this up to awkward phrasing.
Good luck in your git hunt.

[JayMc]

@Jim
Thanks Mate....no disrespect was intended. I didn't want to upset anyone which is also why I didn't name the brand of the expensive guitars for same reason.. an also hoping to avoid causing any heated debate etc :-)

I appreciate all your input ! I'm now looking through some Chinese made Blueridge, Eastman, an Yamaha Guitars...so happy day's more of a selection already to think about an to try out :-) Thanks Guy's.

Cheers,
Jay

[TokyoNeko]

When it comes to consumer electronics, we're pretty much resigned to products made in China, because that's where the vast majority of the goods come from. We'll see what happens in a few years, as some of the electronic companies are moving their manufacturing facilities away from China.

So comparing consumer electronics to guitars (when it comes to purchasing options) is like comparing apples to oranges. We actually have choices on the origins of the guitars we buy.

[boneuphtoner]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Eastman are really making very fine guitars that seriously challenge the likes of Gibson and Martin.

100% agree! My Eastman E1D, now that it has John Pearse phosphor bronze strings, really gives my Taylor 317e a run for it. If I had to declare the better guitar, it is the Taylor, but not by very much at all.

My experience with Yamaha guitars made in China has also been very positive. I recently traded my excellent FG800 for an Eastman PCH1-GACE mostly because of thicker 1-3/4 nut width, not because I was dissatisfied with the Yamaha. My kid still loves his ruby red FS820.