#61
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Very good to know. Thanks again, Charles!
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#62
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And best of luck. I started out down this road of setting up guitars, refrets etc in the mid 70s when there was very little information available. I had to make use of the engineering theory, workshop practise training and woodwork classes that I had done throughout my school and apprenticeship years. It was all self taught by using sound workshop theory, and experimentation on top of that. No special tools; a two foot steel rule was about the best thing I had, oh, and one book, 'Complete Guitar Repair' by Hideo Kamimoto. Fretwire had to be obtained almost by kinda backdoor means through friendly suppliers. It was not easy! But that resulted in me learning the hard way as they say. A refret was an epic. Prise the old frets out with a pen knife, cut the new ones holding fret wire by hand with a junior hacksaw, file the ends whilst (again) holding the fret in my hand, then bend the fret with two pairs of cutters gripping the tang, hammer em in with a wooden mallet. Anyway, one of my early refrets was for the late, great Mel Galley of Trapeze (later Whitesnake), and he was well pleased. I used to level the frets with a cutting edge whetstone. I eventually discovered Stewmac and I now have a vast arsenal of tools and can undertake most jobs, except full resprays. So yes, best of luck, it's a long hard road and there will be tears and mishaps along the way for sure. But just holler, lots of knowledgable guys on here ready to help.
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Experienced guitar tech and singer/guitarist based in the midlands, England. McIlroy AJ50 Yamaha CPX-1200 Yamaha CPX-700/12 Yamaha LS16 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha FG-580 Vox V2000-DR + electric guitars.. |
#63
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In retrospect, yeah that was kinda risky to start out at the nut on this latest one. My reasoning was that I had a lot to shave at the nut. Rather than going all the way to my target height, I should've at least gone say halfway to bring it to a reasonable height. Then worked on the saddle and then gone back to finish off the nut. Quote:
Thanks a lot for your feedback. Sounds like you've had a very interesting career!! Side question on bushings ... I just got my Grover Sta-tites. I needed 3/8" conversion bushings for the Big Baby. (Although I've had this issue on my other guitars too.) The bushings are just loose enough so they don't stay in the peg holes. The low g bushing actually leans toward the string tension. Any harm in wrapping the bushing with a couple layers of masking tape to keep them snug in the peghole?
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#64
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It is universally recognized throughout the civilized world, that the order for setup is
A: relief B: nut C: saddle Yes , everything is interactive, but if you set your relief first, and then set your nut slots fractionally high, by the time you get the saddle down to the correct height, you will be able to do the final nut adjustment by feel. And the final adjustment is always by feel, not by measurement. |
#65
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Experienced guitar tech and singer/guitarist based in the midlands, England. McIlroy AJ50 Yamaha CPX-1200 Yamaha CPX-700/12 Yamaha LS16 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha FG-580 Vox V2000-DR + electric guitars.. |
#66
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#67
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Not me. I do it once through and achieve the desired results - no iteration.
I do relief, SADDLE then nut. I have a very specific reason for doing it that way having to do with the order of magnitude of the adjustments. It requires a more detailed explanation than is warranted and I'm willing to go into at the moment. If you want to, change the order, iterate, whatever. The only thing that matters is that you achieve your desired result. I'm of the opinion that the way I do it is quicker for me. I'm sure everyone else is of the opinion that the way they do it is quicker for them. I have nothing invested in trying to convince others they should adopt the methods I use or that my methods are "better". |
#68
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I love it when you make these ridiculous absolute statements in an effort to justify why everyone ought to do it the way YOU prefer to do it. It makes me laugh every time. Last edited by charles Tauber; 02-25-2012 at 07:50 PM. |
#69
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If you set the nut height by holding the string down between the 2nd and 3rd fret, the height of the saddle is irrelevant.
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#70
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I'm not sure of your status as a tech or as someone who lovingly looks after their own guitars, but this is the danger of self-styled experts assuming they know better than people who have not only been doing the job for decades, but whose approach is scientific, based on engineering principles and lots of studying too. That may sound conceited, hmm, not sure if I should apologise for that or just be brazen and say "that's the way it is". Anyone can wrong - including myself of course - but trust me on this issue. Cutting nut slots too low is an easy mistake to make, and you are playing with fire if you cut nut slots low THEN take the saddle down. Sorry, but the rules of (very simple) physics dictate that it is as simple as that! Best of luck to OP (pm me anytime for advice), I'm outta this one now, nothing more to prove, just pointless arguments to participate in!
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Experienced guitar tech and singer/guitarist based in the midlands, England. McIlroy AJ50 Yamaha CPX-1200 Yamaha CPX-700/12 Yamaha LS16 Yamaha FG-300 Yamaha FG-580 Vox V2000-DR + electric guitars.. |
#71
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I do it this way as well. I also measure and set the saddle height while pressing the string down at the 1st fret. This eliminates any variables in nut height. I set relief at or near zero first Last edited by RussB; 02-26-2012 at 06:18 AM. |
#72
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Right, wrong...this isn't about that, is it? I am just sharing how I do set up work. The methods I use result in consistent and repeatable results |
#73
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"Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone. For this brave old earth must borrow its mirth, But has trouble enough of its own". [Ella Wheeler Wilcox] "If I can help somebody, as I pass along, Then my living shall not be in vain". [Mahalia Jackson ] |
#74
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Very interesting debate and really no better proof in the pudding that guitar setup is truly not set in stone. Everyone gravitates to their own way of doing things. Frankly, cos, all these ways have their own seemingly irrefutable logic to them.
Anyway, I was getting a little spoiled with the Big Baby and now feel that the playability on my dread is way too hard (lol) so much so that I was thinking of going back to ... gasp ... light gauge strings on them. Google search came up with this post in the AGF archives by a "JTFoote" giving his (or her?) thoughts on why you should theoretically be able to get easier playability with mediums since you can get lower action action with them over the lights ... Quote:
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#75
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So I’ve been giving some thought to the rule that however much you want to take down at the 12th, you double and that is the amount to take off at the saddle.
If the 12th is the midpoint between the nut and saddle, someone had pointed out to me that this relationship can be summarized thus: the change is the inverse of the ratio of the distance from the saddle to the fret in question versus the entire length to the nut. In the case of the 12th, it’s ½ the distance and therefore you shave off 2/1 times. Out of curiosity would this technically apply to the nut as well? Granted, of course the proper way is how it’s been described here. But mathematically, would that still hold?
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