New Baggs IR pedal...

[JackB1]

You can just buy the AP5 Pro system by itself and install it into whatever you want.
https://reverb.com/item/2736396-mato...-pickup-system

You could probably find a cheap Takamine or something similar that already has the square cut out of the upper part of the guitar.

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Of course, they would all be unemployed if someone invented a new soundhole pickup that...gasp..sounds like your acoustic guitar.....

I mean, my Baggs M80 heavily EQ'd sounds good with strumming, but stretch out and...it soon becomes an electric guitar.

My Baggs Anthem sounds great strummed also and better and more articulate than some pickups for higher notes, but there is that underlying metallic sound and the mic is masking the quack of the Element really.

My Matons with the Maton Ap5-Pro system sound great, leagues ahead of the above, but to add a Maton pickup to my Gibson J50 would require a large hole near the bridge for the pickup system and a large hole on the upper bout for the controls....hmmm, I have considered buying a budget Maton with the pickup and.....>>>>>>>>>> (The J50 is just a plain 2002 model, nothing rare...hmmmmm).


BluesKing777.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by JackB1

You can just buy the AP5 Pro system by itself and install it into whatever you want.
https://reverb.com/item/2736396-mato...-pickup-system

You could probably find a cheap Takamine or something similar that already has the square cut out of the upper part of the guitar.

You would have to really love this system as the main transducer part is basically built into the bridge. This is a pretty big mod.

[JackB1]

Didn't realize the bridge part was so complicated. Seems like the Anthem would be similar....both are under saddle + mic blend systems.

Originally Posted by Petty1818

You would have to really love this system as the main transducer part is basically built into the bridge. This is a pretty big mod.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Didn't realize the bridge part was so complicated. Seems like the Anthem would be similar....both are under saddle + mic blend systems.

The thing with Matons, Cole Clarks and Takamines is that the pickups are fully integrated with the guitars (I guess you could add Taylor to that list, too). You can't really just pop those systems into another guitar. Systems like the Anthem (and many others) are designed to be aftermarket installs. The closest thing to those types of integrated bridge/pickup systems that is reasonable to install in another guitar would be the Baggs LB6 or the Barbera Soloist.

[BluesKing777]

I have tried lots of pickups and so far, the full Anthem is probably closest to the Maton AP5-Pro system, but nowhere near as 'real'. I will probably get the Anthem in my Gibson J50 - I want to play it at the local blues jam night....but I would end up taking the Matons. Boring. But it might save me getting donged on the head and guitar stolen in the car park!

Matons aren't all roses either....I rang their Custom Shop once thinking I would order a guitar with a big chunky baseball neck or an OM V style neck, but the person I spoke to (not the Custom Shop luthier) said they only use their 'standard neck' or a '12 string neck' and basically hung up the phone on me. Hmm, another dream on the rocks.

Funny you mention the LB6, Doug, I asked my luthier which pickup system he likes - he doesn't like the Maton - and he likes the Baggs LB6. Which will probably need a Tonedexter to carry around and confuse the sound guy...


BluesKing777.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Funny you mention the LB6, Doug, I asked my luthier which pickup system he likes - he doesn't like the Maton - and he likes the Baggs LB6. Which will need a Tonedexter to confuse the sound guy...

The LB6 is an under-appreciated pickup, I think. Phil Keaggy always got a good sound from his (not sure if he's still using it, maybe). I've had a few and liked them plugged in, tho the micarta wasn't the best for acoustic sound. Bob Colosi is/was? making them with bone, which worked well, too.

[BluesKing777]

My luthier/guitar tech, and my car mechanic, are absolutely the best I have found. Very high quality work, but I must say the word 'quick' is a total unknown to them! They both work alone and don't answer the phone if they don't feel like it.

I can only imagine how long the Gibson J50 would be gone if I asked for the major surgery option of the Maton AP5-Pro pickup install!

Baggs Anthem it is!

The Anthem that came in my 2005 Dove is the reason. I don't know if anyone would buy one to do this, but as I already have the Tonedexter, the full Anthem is great for a Tonedexter file as I can turn the mic totally off in the blend control. Same with the new Baggs voiceprint, maybe? Or I can go 'cheap and dirty' plugged direct with full mic blend at the club...



BluesKing777.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The LB6 is an under-appreciated pickup, I think. Phil Keaggy always got a good sound from his (not sure if he's still using it, maybe). I've had a few and liked them plugged in, tho the micarta wasn't the best for acoustic sound. Bob Colosi is/was? making them with bone, which worked well, too.

I always liked my LB6, especially in the Dual Source system (which Keaggy still uses). It’s a simple piezo and like Doug said, a bit under-appreciated, as it sounds rather good. I don’t use it (currently) in my main performing guitars but I have been considering returning to it. It’s an exceptional pickup for fingerstyle and every time I hear Doyle Dykes, Keaggy, or James Taylor I wonder why I tore it out.

That said, the Dual Source isn’t a ton of system but it’s still significant and everyone’s experience with tone after installing the LB6 is different. Some perceive no change, others do. Bob Colosi makes bone topped LB6s for $10 more than a normal one. I used one and I can’t tell you if it sounded better than a standard LB6 but it was pretty.

[Petty1818]

The LB6 is a pickup I have always wanted to try. I just don't like the fact that the material is Micarta and the fact that the action is set on the top vs. sanding the bottom of the saddle. Still, whenever I hear it, I am always impressed by the fullness of the tone. I bet pairing it with the Tonedexter would be a pretty awesome system.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The LB6 is a pickup I have always wanted to try. I just don't like the fact that the material is Micarta and the fact that the action is set on the top vs. sanding the bottom of the saddle. Still, whenever I hear it, I am always impressed by the fullness of the tone. I bet pairing it with the Tonedexter would be a pretty awesome system.

You would think so but I wasn’t impressed with the clips that James posted is Tonedexter IRs for the LB6. They seemed hollow and it required special training. Perhaps recent updates have resolved that and I bet the Soundscape won’t have any issues with the LB6.

On a related note, James Taylor uses passive LB6s in his Olsons which he runs into a Radial PZ Pre and then into a Fishman Aura with custom images. The Radial preamps his LB6, which his FOH guy says improves the Aura’s tone, and gives the FOH an unaffected tone to mix in. In his setting, it works excellently.

[BluesKing777]

Taylor, Bob instead of James...

My Taylor 717e BE with the ES2 would be a great candidate for dual source by adding a small mic internally. It would be very 'Maton", I am guessing. Have Taylor ever had a dual source with mic?

Currently, mono source, it is a nice sound on its own, quite 'pretty' and run through Tonedexter file only needs a few percent to de-quack. I also like the ES2 plugged direct to my Boss VE8 and set quite low on the volume knob while I sing in a Shure SM58 - this picks up some spill. It is better for, well, James Taylor sort of things, Eagles maybe, but not anything punchier.

No, my Maton 808 Custom rules the roost - just plug it in to a PA. Leave everything else at home and just bring a guitar lead. The only one like it in the world and ha ha, it is mine (just took some photos to try and get a photo with the real black look - the camera makes it go blue normally):



I also have the first Maton 808 I bought a few years ago, for slide in Open G with a 16 on the first string - killer!:

(photo from when I just bought it):




BluesKing777.

[AeroUSA]

Brad Clark has an aftermarket style AP5 coming. It’s currently in some production guitars.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

You would think so but I wasn’t impressed with the clips that James posted is Tonedexter IRs for the LB6. They seemed hollow and it required special training. Perhaps recent updates have resolved that and I bet the Soundscape won’t have any issues with the LB6.

The special training is no big deal. The Barbera has every other string out of phase as opposed to just one on the LB6. I just play stuff on strings 1, 3, 5, and it trains up very well - remember, you don't even have to play anything "real" :-). I don't have any LB6 installs anymore to try, tho, so no idea about that. FWIW, I trained my Barbera with the Baggs prototype, and did not have to do anything at all with the out of phase strings, so it appears to be less picky about this sort of thing.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Brad Clark has an aftermarket style AP5 coming. It’s currently in some production guitars.

I think Brad Clark has signed the Supernatural pickup system exclusively to Auden Guitars. Guitars need to be built from the ground up with the system.

Before that signing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s6duECzFC8



BluesKing777.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

You would think so but I wasn’t impressed with the clips that James posted is Tonedexter IRs for the LB6. They seemed hollow and it required special training. Perhaps recent updates have resolved that and I bet the Soundscape won’t have any issues with the LB6.

I had the same reaction to the ToneDexter demo with the LB6. If the Soundscape works better with the LB6, that's great news for LB6 users. In addition to better tone, they'd also get fine-tunable EQ and single-dial feedback suppression in the bargain.

With regards to the fine-tunable EQ, that's no small thing for me. I've gotten to the point where I'm using my Zoom A1 Four pedal more than ToneDexter. While the Zoom pedal's guitar models aren't in the same league as TD's WaveMaps, the very versatile EQ is extremely helpful for my purposes. And as it turns out, I'm apparently not a big fan of the "just like my guitar only louder" thing. It definitely sounds overly ambient to me when its bouncing off the back wall of a lively room.

On the subject of blending the LB6 with a mic, I've always been leery of that because of the phase cancellation thing. There seems to be a growing body of anecdotal evidence, however, that it works pretty well. When the signature Doyle Dykes Multiac was introduced with the LB6 & Lyric combo, that really got my attention and bolstered my interest in trying that combination. I've finally come up with a very satisfying EQ for the Lyric, and I can't help wondering how the Lyric's extremely articulate and airy sound would blend with the LB6's thick and meaty tone.