Do you judge performers on their guitars brands?

[RussL30]

I’ve seen too many performers who can play cirlcles around me on their “cheap” guitars. I’ve also seen people with expensive guitars that can barely play three chords.

I’m always curious to see what some one is playing just because I’m a guitar geek, but I find it silly that playing a certain guitar gives legitimacy. I judge a performance on the quality of playing and singing and not the guitar.

I also like to play bluegrass and blues on my Taylor and modern things on my Gibsons.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

...When I watch guitarists perform, I notice that one of the first things I look for is the guitar brand...I feel like I partly judge the performer based on what he or she is playing. A certain brand gives legitimacy, as does a certain look...

...when I see Joni Mitchell or Paul McCartney play a D-28, I feel more positively about Martins. So, a performer can give a brand some clout.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I do feel it's an aspect of what image we may want to project. So, I take this into consideration when making purchases...

IME it's the performer who gives the brand/model legitimacy and not vice versa, to wit:

• Paul McCartney settled on the now-iconic Hofner 500/1 bass because there were no Fenders available at the time - much less in a left-handed version - the symmetrical body made for a better appearance in the hands of a left-handed player, and the light weight made for easier handling (as well as facilitating breathing for vocals) during the types of extended, high-energy sets they played in their early days; its deep fundamental, short sustain, and percussive "thump" would only later prove their true merits, juxtaposed against the "chime" of George and John's Gretsch/Rick/Epiphone guitars through Vox AC-Series amps...
• Outside of a few diehard lap steel players and a small local market Rickenbacker was virtually unknown outside southern California, until "Toots" Thielemans' adoption of the brand created a demand in Europe (mostly Germany); it was only the serendipitous discovery of a lightweight, short-scale 325 by a young John Lennon that would bring the brand to worldwide prominence - indeed, many fan magazines of the time erroneously listed it as being of German manufacture - and Rickenbacker management was so acutely aware of the Beatles' legitimization of the brand that they had several instruments custom-built and presented to them during their first tour...
• In the early-60's I routinely saw "old-fashioned" Les Pauls hanging in the windows along Manhattan's long-gone East 14th Street "Pawnshop Row" for $100-125, and a kid who lived in the same Brooklyn housing project scored a NOS late-1960/early-1961 3-PU "Black Beauty" Custom for the latter figure in 1964; thanks to Eric Clapton, Mike Bloomfield, and to a lesser extent Keith Richards players began to sit up and take notice of these pawnshop prizes - and as their popularity increased through the rest of the 1960's so did the price tag...
• As an ex-Brooklyn boy I have a long-standing love for Gretsch guitars - knew about them long before the Beatles broke here in the US, got my first one in May '64, and in the time/place I grew up they were everyone's first "good" guitar - but in the late-70's hair-band/arena-rock days you couldn't give them away (with the notable exception of the CSNY-approved White Falcon and "King George" Country Gent); came within inches of buying a '59 6120 in need of some restoration work, for $75 on Manhattan's 48th Street - waited a bit too long, found out a couple years later it went to some guy named Brian Setzer...
• Also in the mid/late-70's acoustic archtop guitars - with the exception of top-shelf examples like the Gibson Super 400/L-5, Epiphone Emperor/Deluxe, and the handmade creations of D'Angelico and Stromberg, all of which still sold on their merits as fine instruments - were considered hopelessly out of date, and at the bottom of the food chain with street prices in the $100-150 range were the thin/tight/bright-sounding small-body boxes like the '30s Epiphone Olympic; thanks to David Rawlings' use of just such an instrument anyone lucky/clairvoyant enough to have bought one 40+ years ago could realize a thirty- to forty-fold return on his/her investment...
• In the mid-60's studio player, ex-Beach Boy, and soon-to-be TV-star Glen Campbell needed an instrument that would deliver strong projection, even string-to-string balance, definition/sustain/handling characteristics that would suit his highly developed technique, and a reasonably "acoustic" tone when played through the typical electric guitar amps of the day; it fell to a military contractor and amateur guitarist named Charlie Kaman to develop just such a guitar - and the upstart Ovation operation would go on to define the "acoustic-electric" genre as well as inspire further development of instruments made in whole or in part from synthetic materials...
• While Bozo and Olson guitars are unquestionably fine instruments, there are a number of high-end luthiers whose work is comparable (or in some cases arguably superior) - in the hands of James Taylor and Leo Kottke respectively they became household names in the acoustic guitar world, which leads me to:

Originally Posted by RussL30

I’ve seen too many performers who can play cirlcles around me on their “cheap” guitars. I’ve also seen people with expensive guitars that can barely play three chords...I also like to play bluegrass and blues on my Taylor and modern things on my Gibsons.

My point exactly - personally, I'd base my choice of instruments on how well they fit my style/technique/artistic goals/physical demands rather than who plays them or whatever the prevailing trends might be, and if that requires a certain amount of iconoclasm on your part so be it; in the words of a Hofner bass ad (describing its adoption by Paul McCartney) it takes an original to appreciate an original, and if that means stepping off the D-18/J-45/OM-28 tone-clone train in the interest of artistic integrity don't give it a second thought...

[Paddy1951]

I don't care one iota what brand guitar a performer uses. Only that it works well for them.
Many performers don't use just one brand/model. The late Tom Petty had a huge collection of instruments. He played many different guitars when he performed.
OTOH, for somebody like Shawn Colvin, her guitar (a 0000 Martin) is really a part of her. Her voice and guitar are as one.

[Cypress Knee]

I think there is a difference between impressionable young people and older folks who have been around for awhile.

Most of the members here were around in the '70's give or take a few years. The visual exposure to an artist was probably A) Johnny Carson B) Midnight Special or C) the album cover. There was also the Johnny Cash show, HeeHaw.

So if you found out John Denver played Guild and you wanted to sound like his record, then Guild became your brand. If you knew CSNY played Martins, then Martin became your sought after brand. If James Taylor played a Gibson, then you wanted a Gibson to sound like JT. And if you didn't know what you wanted, Ovation showed up on so many Midnight Specials in the hands of America, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, and others.

The players played "the good stuff" because that is what made their sound.

These days, on-board electronics advances have created the opportunity for modern performers to showcase their music using other brand guitars that they may not use in the studio. So when the Eagles whip out their Takamines, they are playing them on tour so as not to lose or damage their very valuable Martins. And of those who understand this, who really cares?

But most of us have been through the circus to the point that we have our fingerpicking guitar that we prefer, even if no one else likes it. We have a bluegrass guitar for flatpicking and a strummer, and we really don't care what other people think about our guitars because they are the ones that we have chosen to keep after many years of experimentation.

CK

[Jobe]

I am always interested to see what people play. Watching American Idol (yes I admit it) I see Taylor wins hands down and they sound pretty good to me but I find myself thinking, 'Really. another Taylor?' Last show somebody walked in with a Breedlove and I thought "Cool" because it was out of the norm. In the end it does come down to the player and what the person can get out of the guitar but I spark up when things sway from the normal. And I consider the musician that made that choice of axe.

[Nymuso]

I did when I was 11. I figured if you were any good you played a Martin. Period.

Now in my observation it seems only snobby wood sniffers look at the headstocks of acoustics, but they’re not looking for Martin. They’re looking for Fill-In-The-Blank-Yourself. You know the usual suspects.

I currently play gigs using one of three guitars: A Godin, an Ovation or a Martin. Anyone who has a problem with any of them can talk to me during the break. Interestingly, they do.

[fred4321]

Originally Posted by RussL30

I’ve seen too many performers who can play cirlcles around me on their “cheap” guitars. I’ve also seen people with expensive guitars that can barely play three chords.

I’m always curious to see what some one is playing just because I’m a guitar geek, but I find it silly that playing a certain guitar gives legitimacy. I judge a performance on the quality of playing and singing and not the guitar.

I also like to play bluegrass and blues on my Taylor and modern things on my Gibsons.

Right on! Its all in the heart and fingers. No matter how expensive the axe is.

[Silly Moustache]

I'd like to offer my thanks to Steve DaRosa for his detailed summary of the fashions of different guitar in the recent past.

It still seems to surprise me that British bands created such a stir in the USA.

In the '60s bands like The Rollings Stones (who I remember playing Harmony solids), Jeff Beck and the Tridents who played a scratched up old white telecaster, Alexis Korner, Ronnie Woods (the Birds) Cyril Davies, John Baldry, Rod Stewart, Jimmy Page, Peter Green, Richard Thompson and Eric Clapton were all just relatively local gigging bands and/or members, that I regularly saw and sometimes met.

I question the term "judging" but in the days of buying music on 12" Lps I'm sure than may of us were influenced/conditioned to lust after the guitars being posed with by our musical heroes on the covers of such albums.

It should also be remembered that even after the British embargo on US made instruments : https://reverb.com/uk/news/the-briti...uying-american

It was difficult to purchase US made guitars for many of us (and I lived in/near London) until the very late '60s -'70s.

[PorkPieGuy]

Nope, I don't judge anyone by what they play because about 10 seconds after they start playing, I don't care.

With that said, I wish I could go back in the late 80s and buy every Fender Jaguar I saw in various pawn shops back then. After Cobain made it big, you couldn't find them and prices shot up.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

M
I am a guitar snob in that a bluegrass (or related) band guitarist HAS to have a by Martin or a very limited number of clone makers.


Makes sense? Of course not.

You can't use a Gibson guitar in bluegrass, and you shouldn't play country blues on a Martin.

Silly? yup, don't care.

You might be surprised how multilateral such "silly" perceptions really are, especially in the BlueGrass world...I have seldom had as much fun "people watching" as when observing the mental gyrations , psychological "gnashing of teeth " and squirming body language, from grown men, as when I show up at a bluegrass jam with my Taylor 810ce dread .
It's as if playing takes a back seat to looking like a Hipster, and having a D28, it is pretty amusing.

[PorkPieGuy]

Originally Posted by KevWind

You might be surprised how multilateral such "silly" perceptions really are, especially in the BlueGrass world...I have seldom had as much fun "people watching" as when observing the mental gyrations , psychological "gnashing of teeth " and squirming body language, from grown men, as when I show up at a bluegrass jam with my Taylor 810ce dread .
It's as if playing takes a back seat to looking like a Hipster, and having a D28, it is pretty amusing.

'grassers can be the worst. Believe me I know. Try finding a gig as a drummer in bluegrass country.

[Paddy1951]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I'd like to offer my thanks to Steve DaRosa for his detailed summary of the fashions of different guitar in the recent past.



It still seems to surprise me that British bands created such a stir in the USA.



In the '60s bands like The Rollings Stones (who I remember playing Harmony solids), Jeff Beck and the Tridents who played a scratched up old white telecaster, Alexis Korner, Ronnie Woods (the Birds) Cyril Davies, John Baldry, Rod Stewart, Jimmy Page, Peter Green, Richard Thompson and Eric Clapton were all just relatively local gigging bands and/or members, that I regularly saw and sometimes met.



I question the term "judging" but in the days of buying music on 12" Lps I'm sure than may of us were influenced/conditioned to lust after the guitars being posed with by our musical heroes on the covers of such albums.



It should also be remembered that even after the British embargo on US made instruments : https://reverb.com/uk/news/the-briti...uying-american



It was difficult to purchase US made guitars for many of us (and I lived in/near London) until the very late '60s -'70s.

If it still seems strange that British bands created such a stir in the U.S., remember things were still very "black and white" at that time. Very few black artists had crossover hits (to the mainstream). White kids had to search if they wanted to hear "race music."

The British recycled American blues, r&b, soul, etc. and served it back up in ways it had not be heard.
The lack of American made instruments may actually have been an advantage. A lot of the early BI stuff had a great gritty edge to it, maybe because of the European made guitars used.

For a lot of American kids it wasn't Fender or Gibson either. My first guitar was a Sears Silvertone (Harmony) Bobcat. $79.95. Never saw a Fender until many years later.

I was enamored at age 14 by the Beatles, The Searchers- on and on. The group that absolutely grabbed me... The Rolling Stones. Really gritty, hard edged. Their early stuff was all redone music of prevailing U.S. black artists.

Still love em!

[Mr. Paul]

Of course not, but I always give +1 extra credit for a sunburst Gibson and -1 for a ________.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

When I watch guitarists perform, I notice that one of the first things I look for is the guitar brand.... I feel like I partly judge the performer based on what he or she is playing.... My feeling is that this is inevitable....

I disagree about the judging. I certainly try to identify what guitar they're playing. I think that's really typical for guitar nuts such as ourselves. But the judging comes from the output, not the brand name.

I saw this group up in Sandpoint, Idaho last time I was up there. They're good! I was happy seeing the lead singer chick playing an Epiphone Masterbilt....

[RustyAxe]

Judge? Nah. But if someone sits down with a $10K boutique guitar I will note whether he/she brings the chops to go with it. I'm MUCH more impressed when someone takes the stage with a $100 <brand name omitted to protect the indigent> and completely owns the room. The instrument is just a tool, the player is the artist.