BOSE L1 Model 2 System

[Wandering Man]

OUCH!!! VERY NICE RIG!!

Like I said, apples and...er...passion fruit! :-)

[sdelsolray]

Here's some more detail.

I took the Drawmer DL241 compressor/limiter/gate (top rack unit in the first picture) out of rotation, as it was slightly interfering with the authenticity, detail and honesty of the sound image. However, it did allow for about 3 or 4 dB of additional gain before feedback. It was patched through the SPS-1's inserts. I might add it back in.

The "sideways" rack has the Hafler power amp, a Korg tuner and a Rane 30 band stereo eq, which is patched between the SPS-1 output and the Hafler input. I use it sparingly for tuning a room or environment.

I use a SBT and internal or external mic, preferring the external mic. The mic in the last pic is a Microtech Gefell M294, which is the most detailed and accurate mic I've ever had the pleasure of using. The guitar is a David Webber Roundbody EIR/cedar, with a K&K mini and AKG 416L inside.

[Earthworm]

sdelsolray,
Thanks for the pics and info on that system. I bet it sounds great--it sure looks cool.

There is one deal breaker for me, however, which will keep me clinging to my Bose L1 tower: monitoring the sound. With the Bose system I hear what the audience hears because I sit in front of the tower. With a traditional system and the speakers out in front of the performer (who runs her/his own sound onstage), I can only really guess as to balance, eq, volume, effects.

[open-road-matt]

sdelsolray,
Thanks for sharing the pics and the info. The system looks fantastic. I'd love to hear it!

Earthworm,
I agree with you about how nice it is to hear what the audience is hearing. My only trouble with that and it's gotten better now that I've been using my L1 for a while is that I like my vocals louder in a monitor mix than I do in the front of house mix.

I used an in-ear system for quite a while before I bought my first L1 in January of 2005. For the first several shows, people were always telling me to turn the guitar up. That is when I realized that I was trying to create a monitor mix for me as opposed to a good mix for the audience. It's a subtle difference but it took a bit of adjustment on my part.

The other funny thing is that although I stand in front of my L1 and hear what the audience hears, I still have to do my "solo act sound check" that I always did with my old system. I drag my guitar, my vocal mic and my Porchboard out into the room as far as my cables will let me go, face the L1 and play to hear how the room sounds and make adjustments accordingly.

It seems like sound systems are like anything else. People each find what works for them and their budget, playing style, technical know-how, transportation, etc, etc. The L1 sure works for me and I guess that's what counts.

Matt

[Bill Cory]

Great thread! -- My son has been charged with purchasing a road-worthy sound system for this purpose, and I'm wondering if you all think the Bose L1 Model II would do it:

Keyboard: Fantom electronic kb - not sure which model
Mic: Shure condenser wireless -- not sure which model

Venues: Church sanctuaries, auditoriums, small and large rooms up to 1500 people, but usually more like 100 to 300.

Function: Leading worship for the meetings.

That's it -- just him as the singer/player.

Opinions? Would the L1 Model II suffice?

Thanks!

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Earthworm

sdelsolray,
Thanks for the pics and info on that system. I bet it sounds great--it sure looks cool.

There is one deal breaker for me, however, which will keep me clinging to my Bose L1 tower: monitoring the sound. With the Bose system I hear what the audience hears because I sit in front of the tower. With a traditional system and the speakers out in front of the performer (who runs her/his own sound onstage), I can only really guess as to balance, eq, volume, effects.

I use an Ultrasound 50E for a monitor (not pictured) when needed. As to setting the sound, I simply rotate the mains to point towards my sitting position to set things, then turn them back out again and add gain. The tone really doesn't change when the volume increases, it's very linear and consistent in that regard. I can also walk out in front with the guitar to check things.

[open-road-matt]

Bill,
I think it sounds like the L1 would be perfect for your son. I don't think it would be enough for the crowds of 1500 but I would guess that in those cases, the venue would have a house system. He could then set up his L1 as usual and run a line out to the house and then use the L1 as a stage monitor and turn up the house to fill the room.

There is a very welcoming and knowledgeable forum on the L1 at www.bose.com including a list of folks in all parts of the country who would set up an L1 and let your son demo it and see what he thinks.

It seems to me that most people who try one and have the time to get to know the system love it and would never go back to a "conventional" sound system. Most people, generally speaking, who say they don't like it have not gotten the chance to really put it through its paces and give it a fair test. Those are folks who had to use one as a house system with no guidance, play through one at an open mic, demo one at a Guitar Center, etc.

Of course that's not true for everyone. There are folks who give it a fair test and decide that it's not for them. In my opinion, it is perfectly suited for a solo act, playing in a wide variety of venues that wants a good sounding, very portable, easy to set up and use system.

Matt

[Old Dominion]

imho -- every PA system represents a compromise of some sort. The task for each particular musician is to determine which support approach works best for what they are doing. The strikingly beautiful system sdelsoray has meticulously built is probably out of reach for many of us financially and practically. well, OK... its out of reach for me. But, given the chance to have one I'd jump in a heartbeat because I have to believe the sound coming out must be just as stunning.

Having said that -- I'd never take that system into some of the Irish pubs I've played. I'd be so concerned about damaging the equipment I'd never be comfortable. And that particular context is not about nuance -- its about finding the balance of being heard above the roar of the crowd and the din of the bar while not being so overpowering that you destroy the good vibes of community and frivolity. For that kind of gig -- the Bose is perfect. I used the 1st gen Bose that way for a couple of years and they were a leap beyond a traditional PA in terms of ease of setup, the amount of room needed for the system, and the actual sound discerned by the audience.

Having said that (part 2) -- there are aspects of the Bose that are less than ideal. In spite of those, in my experience, it was a system which always worked every time for every situation I asked it to be in. We used to run two (not stereo) with an Onyx mixer front-end supporting two acoustic guitars, electric bass, elaborate hand drum and trap set percussion, fiddle, and three vocals. We never had distortion problems and never felt like the Bose couldn't cut it.

Now, if I had to play a small intimate gig that required unobscured clarity, nuance, and accuracy -- I'd choose sdelsoray's system hands down. I'm sure it would provide the hoped for outcome. In fact, any time he wants to travel our way and let us experience it -- I'd be thrilled to provide some good cookin' and cold beer.

But -- we choose PAs based on how they're being used, where they're being used, what they need to support, and how much money we have to devote to the purpose. Those decisions drive what we end up with at any point in time. We get the best tool for the purpose as limited by our constraints not necessarily the best tool available.

cheers!

[Old Dominion]

Originally Posted by Cakes

Great post, Patrick.

Thanks John!

When I read about the T1 ToneMatch it sure seemed like Bose had addressed the few issues we had with our 1st gen system. Makes me wish I'd been in a situation where I could have added that to my PAS rather than sell the system. But, the fact that I wasn't actively playing and had no projection of that changing anytime soon -- it became my best bet for getting thru a tough financial stretch.

The real proof in the pudding is this... if I had to buy another system to support a new band I wouldn't hesitate to pick the new Bose. Just offers great flexibility.

Still -- I'd love to see sdelsoray roll out our way -- I'd be very interested in hearing his rig.

best regards

[Earthworm]

The best possible scenario for me would be for sdelsolray to run sound for me through his system. That'd be awesome to have someone who obviously knows sound to take care of everything.

If I ever win the Powerball, I'll put you on retainer...

[mike o]

A few more thoughts'....

Am I picking up on some equipment snobbery (from both sides)????

First, I did drink the cool-aid!!!! I'm a Bose fan. One thing not mentioned on any of these Bose Vs whatever threads is "will your audience know the difference? Will it justify the additional cost? Steve's systems Vs. Bose Vs. a common PA system. I think the law of diminishing returns applies here as well as for high end guitars. One needs to find a balance in cost, portability, sound quality, ease of use. etc. to make the best decision for themselves.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Earthworm

The best possible scenario for me would be for sdelsolray to run sound for me through his system. That'd be awesome to have someone who obviously knows sound to take care of everything.

If I ever win the Powerball, I'll put you on retainer...

It's a deal!

[rainsong]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

"Not everyone is enamored with the Bose L1 sound. The digital artifacts, harsh high frequencies, artificial, strained and anemic mids and dijointed bass, all add up to a strained listening experience."

+1

I've only heard one bose system live at a real gig and I tend to agree. It was a 3 piece with a drum machine. Actually the drum machine was the best sounding part of the act. They consisted of acoustic guitar run straight to the bose electric guitar through small marshal, then mic'd through the bose and 3 vocals all run through 2 towers ea. w/ a bass unit. I know ideally everyone should have their own tower but this didn't seem like it should have been too much underkill. I will agree that there were no hotspots, everything sounded woefully anemic and somewhat harsh no matter where I stood. They asked me sit in on a song and I had a devil of a time hearing myself compared to a standard monitor system. Glad it works for some people, it sure is a lot less work to set up I'll give you that. I wonder if the the same few people who don't tlike the bose are the same few people who don't lke the K&K pickups? hmmmm

[rainsong]

oops, forgot. They also had a bass player but he had his own amp and sounded fine.

[open-road-matt]

Mike,
I have heard people sound bad through a Bose system. I think people who care about how they sound and really work at a great live sound will make any system they use sound as good as possible. I'm not saying you need to get a Bose but my guess is that if you had one, you'd sound good through it simply because you would make sure that you did.

As for monitoring yourself, it was hard for me to get used to hearing myself through the L1. I had been using in-ears for at least a year before I got my first Bose. It certainly took some getting used to.

I played through one at an open mic last month that was poorly set up. They were running everything through an external mixer with tons of verb. I had a very hard time hearing myself and I've been using one of these since 2005.

Just my two cents,
Matt