How do YOU set your Baggs Para DI EQ?

[Italuke]

Just recently diving into amplified acoustic sound. Have a K&K Mini in my Eastman dread, Baggs Para Acoustic. This setup of course can go straight to PA, or maybe first to a dedicated acoustic amp onstage.

Looking first for some general suggestions as to getting a good acoustic tone from this combination. I know the "answer" is play with all the knobs until things sound good, but wondering what others have found. I have not been able to get close to my guitar's great unamplified tone.

Second, seems like most folks are using an onstage acoustic amp even with full PA support these days. What's the consensus there?

I'll be doing a semi-acoustic duo/trio thing as a subset of a larger band. We have lots of gear EXCEPT the dedicated "acoustic" ensemble stuff.

Thanks in advance.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Italuke

…seems like most folks are using an onstage acoustic amp even with full PA support these days. What's the consensus there?

Hi Italuke…
Not sure there is consensus…but there are good reasons to use a stage amp.

I ALWAYS carry a small stage amp and send a direct signal from my preamp to the board and a clean feed to my amp these days. The Stage amp is my 'illusion' of how I sound to the room. And I can beef it up or cut it back as needed without affecting the house mix (more on that later).

Stage amps tone, volume etc settings and adjustments are for ME on stage, not the room. Room settings are for the audience, not for me.

They are best separated.
The dual capability of even a simple passive Direct Box is you can come out of the preamp on your guitar chain and send separate signals to the house (XLR) and the amp (¼").

The advantage of this is you can adjust your amp without changing the house mix.

Actually, until you've raised the tension/level (anger) of a sound tech who just spent time dialing in your tone in the house only to have you adjust your amp and change his mix…you may not have gained a proper understanding of stage etiquette!

Even when an acoustic amp allows me to feed separated feeds to each, I still use a simple Direct Box to separate them. It's peace of mind for me, and always works.

And I make friends with the sound techs first…They can make stage time fun - or… … …

[Italuke]

Yup, makes perfect sense, even the part about using a DI despite your amp having separate outs. Just much cleaner, safer. I'll just have to pony up for a decent acoustic amp.

[Misifus]

I have the K&K Pure Mini in a couple of my guitars. I found that the ParaDI is a bit happier seeing 1 Megaohm input impedance. The K&K deiivers about 10 Megaohms. This is not a huge problem but the sound can be improved. I made up a little box from Radio Shack (wow, does that date me) anyway, I just put a couple of female 1/4” jacks and wired them together with a 1 Meg resister in parallel. The result was a little sweeter sound from my amp. It was cheap and easy and I can hear a difference.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Misifus

I have the K&K Pure Mini in a couple of my guitars. I found that the ParaDI is a bit happier seeing 1 Megaohm input impedance. The K&K deiivers about 10 Mega ohms.

It’s the other way round - the K&K’s output-Z is 1 Megohm, the Baggs’ input-Z is 10 Megohms. But you’re right that there’s a mismatch - off by a factor of 10 - which can result in bloated bass, and which can take some extreme EQ to control. It’s my firm belief that prevention, by using a matched-impedance Pre-Amp/DI, is far better than a cure, e.g. having to mess around with EQ to try to get a sound that’s somewhere near ‘acceptable’.

There are far better-matched options than the Baggs Para DI for K&K pickups - K&K themselves produce a range of pre-amps which, of course, are matched to their pickups, but the Fire-Eye Red-Eye, the Sunnaudio Stage DI-2, the Grace Alix or Felix, the Orchid Acoustic Pre-Amp (U.K.), all are matched, or have a matching facility, to the K&K, and there are others.

When I changed from USTs to K&K pickups, my Baggs Para-DI lasted two gigs before I decided to stop fighting with it, ditched it, and bought the Orchid Acoustic Pre-Amp - the improvement in sound was substantial and immediate.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[lppier]

Does the impedance mismatch apply to the ultratonic pickup as well? I have a venue di

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

But you’re right that there’s a mismatch - off by a factor of 10 - which can result in bloated bass, and which can take some extreme EQ to control. It’s my firm belief that prevention, by using a matched-impedance Pre-Amp/DI, is far better than a cure, e.g. having to mess around with EQ to try to get a sound that’s somewhere near ‘acceptable’.

Yeah, disclaimer invoked: at this point in my journey I'm fine messing around with EQ rather than buying a new preamp. And bass really isn't my issue, I'm able to dial that down to an acceptable level. What I'm after are more the subtleties of getting a natural sounding midrange and crisp, airy highs -- like the guitar sounds unamplified.

Guessing most likely I'll get much closer to that ideal sound when I get a real acoustic amp for onstage. (Right now just experimenting playing through my practice bass amp, Fender Rumble 25, set flat. I know, I know...)

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Yeah, disclaimer invoked: at this point in my journey I'm fine messing around with EQ rather than buying a new preamp. And bass really isn't my issue, I'm able to dial that down to an acceptable level. What I'm after are more the subtleties of getting a natural sounding midrange and crisp, airy highs -- like the guitar sounds unamplified.

Same issue - the mismatch causes a roll-off of trebles. You’re not getting the ‘crisp, airy highs’ because of the mis-match in impedance. The Baggs is designed for use with a UST which presents ~10 Meg, not a passive soundboard transducer presenting 1 Meg. My Para DI was great with my USTs, which matched impedance-wise, but it was a POC with my K&Ks.

Originally Posted by Italuke

Guessing most likely I'll get much closer to that ideal sound when I get a real acoustic amp for onstage. (Right now just experimenting playing through my practice bass amp, Fender Rumble 25, set flat. I know, I know...)

Maybe, maybe not - you’ll have to suck it and see I guess. I genuinely hope it works for you.

FWIW, my Roland AC-60’s ‘Guitar’ channel has a built in pre-amp with a ‘Shape’ button which rolls off some of the mids and lifts the trebles. And I still have the bass, middle, and treble controls to tweak it further. I never need to use my Orchid Pre with that amp, only when I’m going direct through the PA - if you find the right amp for you, it’s possible you could also lose the Baggs - Win/Win!

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[nightchef]

I get the logic of having a stage amp so that you can adjust your stage sound to meet your needs without altering the house sound. But I got frustrated trying to find an acoustic amp that didn’t sound bad to me, so I’ve recently decided to go the powered-speaker route with a QSC K10.2. Not as adjustable as an amp, but it sounds much, much better than the amps I tried, without that awful hyped, clangy midrange that so many of them seem to have. (Is it just me, or are most acoustic amps designed by people who assume that if an acoustic player wants an amp, that means they want their guitar to sound like an electric?)

As for the PADI — settings are very much relative to all factors: the guitar, the electronics, the room, the kind of music and ensemble size. But in general, here’s what I’ve found:

Bass — I most often leave this alone. Sometimes I cut it a bit if the sound in the room is muddy. I hardly ever boost it.
Notch — the process for this is well laid out in the manual. Basically, boost and sweep to find the primary feedback frequency, then cut as needed.
Mid — I mostly use this in the bottom half of the range, to reduce boxiness in the 400-800 octave. But this will vary with the guitar and the room.
Presence — If the sound is too brassy and “electric”, cut this. If it’s too polite and dull, boost it. I more often have to do the former, but it varies.
Treble — With good electronics I can usually leave this alone, but sometimes it needs a mild boost if the sparkle factor is missing. This is especially likely if I’ve had to cut the Presence knob (there’s a bit of interactivity between the two). I rarely need to cut it.