Struggling with palm muting

[shekie]

I've been playing for six years, would describe myself as advanced beginner trying to get to the next level. I'm comfortable with my strumming and play in a sizable band that plays at Senior Centers.

My primary role in the band is rhythm guitar and I would like to improve in that role. It has been suggested to incorporate palm muting in some of our songs, something I am struggling to do. I hold the pick between thumb and index finger but due to the pick rotating on me when I first learned, I'm in the habit of keeping my right hand in a closed fist under the thumb/index fingers.

When I strum, I'm able to keep the knuckles of the middle, ring and pinky fingers away from the higher strings, but when I try to palm mute, I find it almost impossible to rest the outside side of my hand against the bridge while keeping my hand in a fist. If I open my fist and try to play with an open hand, I struggle to control the pick.

Any thoughts/suggestions, especially for those who hold their right hand in a closed fist and have succeeded in making palm muting part of their repertoire? if it matters, I play a Gibson J45.

[Dru Edwards]

I've taught palm muting to a few people and it can be difficult but with practice they are able to do it. I also hold the pick between the thumb and first finger but the rest of my fingers/hand is not in a fist.

Where is your hand resting? Try simple downstrokes and put you hand over the bridge and then move it slowly, while downstroking, in the direction of the neck. You should find a sweet spot.

You also need to try it out with more, and less, pressure of your hand on the strings.

I just tried this with the 'fist' method and I could still palm mute.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by shekie

…when I try to palm mute, I find it almost impossible to rest the outside side of my hand against the bridge while keeping my hand in a fist. If I open my fist and try to play with an open hand, I struggle to control the pick..

Hi shekie…

I am not sure 'palm mute' is an accurate term.

When I do this, I drop the side of my palm (the ham of the hand?) with my fingers relaxed and curled on the strings at the bridge. My palm is never fully facing down, nor my fingers curled up.

I don't chop it into place, but drop it (lest strings get chopped) with the same force as my medium volume strum.

It's a rhythmic move, not karate…

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[shekie]

I had a difficult time explaining what I meant in my post above. I do get that palm muting is really using the edge of the strumming hand, the problem I've encountered is, when my hand is in a fist, it puts my wrist in a somewhat awkward position to get the outer side of my hand down onto the bridge and strings.

When I let my fingers relax out of the fist position, I am more easily able to rotate my wrist away from the strings/neck so that the fleshy part of my outer hand is now more parallel with the bridge and more perpendicular to the strings/neck. That in turn seems to make it easier to mute the strings, but for me at least, it comes at the cost of some pick control.

I'm sure there are countless guitarists who keep their fingers curled up when they strum, yet are able to effectively mute strings, so perhaps I just have to keep working on my technique. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[brianlcox]

I find when palm muting I often don't need to mute all strings, as I tend to focus on only the bass strings when doing muted strums. When I only need to mute the lowest strings the muting becomes much easier.

[perttime]

I do keep my fingers curled up, but not so tight I'd call it a fist. Making an actual fist starts to introduce tensions to my hand and wrist, and that is not good for my speed and accuracy. I think I might let the fingers go more straight when I'm muting.

Palm muting is pretty instinctive to me now but it wasn't always so. The edge of the hand usually touches the strings very briefly and gently, so there must be a developed "feel" involved. There's no time to think and measure while actually doing it. Not sure what made it "click". I might have played muted single note lines or arpeggiated chords to get the feel of where my hand needs to be.

[macmanmatty]

I find palm muting is easiest with a thumb-pick. I know other can do it with flat pick or bare fingers but me a thumb-pick is really the only option to get a good clean mute and hit the right notes.h

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

I find palm muting is easiest with a thumb-pick.

Seconded. This is what I came here to say, and I’m kind of surprised macmanmatty is the only one to suggest it so far. I’ve never even tried to play with a thumbpick, but my understanding is that it’s the main reason for using one. If anyone feels otherwise, feel free to disagree.

You could also try damping the bass strings by putting a small piece of foam rubber under them. Might be an acceptable workaround if you’re only going to use it on a few songs.

Whatever solution you choose, it’s got to be comfortable and tension-free. Straining to hold your hands in an unnatural way is asking for trouble.

[Gordon Currie]

For the OP, I think the closed-fist grip is going to be the barrier to fully explore palm muting.

Palm muting is a big part of how I play for many decades, but my right hand floats a lot or rests *lightly* on the bridge pins. Pick is between thumb and index, and I've got three fingers available for hybrid picking or steadying my hand for lines where I need speed AND precision AND volume.

OP, consider seeing if you can modify your pick grip. It could take awhile to unlearn and relearn, but you might find new techniques are now easier.

[shekie]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

For the OP, I think the closed-fist grip is going to be the barrier to fully explore palm muting.

Palm muting is a big part of how I play for many decades, but my right hand floats a lot or rests *lightly* on the bridge pins. Pick is between thumb and index, and I've got three fingers available for hybrid picking or steadying my hand for lines where I need speed AND precision AND volume.

OP, consider seeing if you can modify your pick grip. It could take awhile to unlearn and relearn, but you might find new techniques are now easier.

Ugh.......I've been experimenting with opening my hand to extend out the middle, ring and pinky fingers as I strum, while placing the outside of my hand on the bridge as a precursor to muting. It definitely makes it easier to comfortably place my hand on the bridge, but in the process I'm losing control of the pick, hitting the strings awkwardly, pick rotating on me.

It took me six months to break the habit of holding the pick with three fingers in that beginner pinched mode into my current thumb and index finger. I wish someone had said to me, ya know, in about six years when you want to get into palm muting, you're gonna be screwed with that closed fist technique.....

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by shekie

Ugh.......I've been experimenting with opening my hand to extend out the middle, ring and pinky fingers as I strum, while placing the outside of my hand on the bridge as a precursor to muting. It definitely makes it easier to comfortably place my hand on the bridge, but in the process I'm losing control of the pick, hitting the strings awkwardly, pick rotating on me.

It took me six months to break the habit of holding the pick with three fingers in that beginner pinched mode into my current thumb and index finger. I wish someone had said to me, ya know, in about six years when you want to get into palm muting, you're gonna be screwed with that closed fist technique.....

When I started playing I used the 'fist' method. After 6 months, or perhaps a year, an accomplished guitarist I was in school with told me to extend my hand. Probably some of the best advice I ever received. IIRC, it was a little difficult to adjust but just give it some time. You may need to hold more of the pick in your hand, i.e. let only a little bit stick out to hit the strings.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by shekie

It took me six months to break the habit of holding the pick with three fingers in that beginner pinched mode into my current thumb and index finger. I wish someone had said to me, ya know, in about six years when you want to get into palm muting, you're gonna be screwed with that closed fist technique.....

The problem with self-learning is that it is often difficult to determine whether a particular personal approach will cause problems down the line. Often that takes a teacher or someone more advanced to spot.

A closed fist picking grip is only a potential liability when it stops you from doing something else, as you have found. If you didn't want to palm mute, it would not be an issue (for you).

You might want to consider guitar instruction where someone can watch your playing for optimal technique.

(A lot of techniques are argued over on this forum. My opinion is they don't matter - until they do. Then come the regrets.)

Usually when I see people struggling with holding a pick, I see a Vulcan Death Grip approach - far too tight. This results in picks flying across the room or into the sound hole.

I notice my picking grip is very loose and relaxed. I constantly make slight adjustments as a song progresses. The wrist is also loose, only tightening as needed for particularly demanding passages.

I think by not relying on the GRIP ONLY to give you steadiness and consistency, you may also develop other muscle ability that helps to control the pick.

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

...Usually when I see people struggling with holding a pick, I see a Vulcan Death Grip approach - far too tight. This results in picks flying across the room or into the sound hole.

I notice my picking grip is very loose and relaxed. I constantly make slight adjustments as a song progresses. The wrist is also loose, only tightening as needed for particularly demanding passages...

I remember that. Sometimes we forget to breathe, and then the music doesn’t, either.