From Milk Bottle to Tulip buttons

[Chickee]

I was knocking around the thought of putting original Les Paul olive color keystone tuners on my 2020 Studio, but my intention was to leave this guitar stock. Pulling out the original Grover’s and then filling up the back of the headstock with a bunch of new holes didn’t appeal to me.

I did however come across these nickel tulip buttons from AllParts to replace the big honking milk bottle buttons that came stock on this guitar.

But be forewarned. Even though these are sold as buttons “for Grover Tuners” they are not a perfect fit. Of the three washers on the original tuners you must remove the white washer in order to have enough purchase for the screw to grab and seat into the machine. They feel the same as before, but I wonder if removing that washer will have consequences somewhere down the road?
Here are before, during, after pix.
frank d.

[Steve DeRosa]

Should've come here and spoken to some of your old buddies first - these are a drop-in fit (no redrilling/reaming), and you could always reinstall the originals if you decide to sell; BTW they also fit just about any guitar equipped with full-size roto-type machines - they were a no-hassle swap on my '82 Yamaha SSC-500 when the original factory gears went south:



https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-ha...ries-33-tuners

[Chickee]

Steve, I saw those machines and the gorgeous locking ones too! And the old adage comes around and bites you on the butt! You get what you pay for. I spend $22 buck for the nickel buttons thinking they would be plug and play, and they are just ok. They look terrific, but I’m uneasy with the install. I should have spent the dough for the factory made lockers with the tulip buttons and been done with it. Some things never change.
fd

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Chickee

...They look terrific, but I’m uneasy with the install. I should have spent the dough for the factory made lockers with the tulip buttons and been done with it...

+1 - I'm looking at your before/after shots and the OEM tulip-button gears, and the latter definitely have a thinner white washer (which I suspect is vital to the longevity of the machines)...

FWIW I've spent more than $22 at a time on adult beverages, when it came my turn to lubricate what one of my bands knew would be an extended rehearsal session - I'd cut my losses (actual and potential, if you leave things as is), chalk it up to experience as you say, and spring the $55 for something you know was purpose-built and will work for you every time...

[Chickee]

And just like Arnold Schwarzenegger taunting the giant alien in the movie “Predator” to enter his deadly trap, I hear Steve DeRosa in my head last night…
Com’on!,! Dooo it, Dooooo it!!! But unlike the wily alien, I strut right on in.

And there I was again with SWEETWATER and PAYPAL, enablers I know all too well, ordering up a set of locking keystone Grover’s for my Studio Lester! Thursday delivery. Oh, when will I ever learn?

[Steve DeRosa]

Only reasons I didn't suggest the lockers is that they're mostly for the Floyd riders - our LP's are hardtails - and to me it's just another level of mechanical doodadery that can go wrong just when you need it most (viz. Murphy's Law - Section 86, Clause 13), but if you like 'em I'll say it...go for it...

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Only reasons I didn't suggest the lockers is that they're mostly for the Floyd riders - our LP's are hardtails - and to me it's just another level of mechanical doodadery that can go wrong just when you need it most (viz. Murphy's Law - Section 86, Clause 13), but if you like 'em I'll say it...go for it...

I had already put it out there in post#3, twice actually, that I prefer locking tuners. No suggestion was necessary. The heart wants what the heart wants.

frank d.

[Glennwillow]

Best of luck on these tuners, Frank!

I have never tried to replace only the tuner buttons.

These discussions tend to make me aware of things I don't otherwise tend to see, such as the shape of tuner buttons. I do like the shape of your new tulip buttons...

- Glenn

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Best of luck on these tuners, Frank!

I have never tried to replace only the tuner buttons.

These discussions tend to make me aware of things I don't otherwise tend to see, such as the shape of tuner buttons. I do like the shape of your new tulip buttons...

- Glenn

Thank you Mr. Willow! I am at a loss that these AllParts replacement buttons, that strictly state “replacement buttons for Grover Rotomatic machines” fit so poorly. They are a microscopic amount too tall, but just enough to not let them seat all the way like the original MilkBottle buttons do.

So, Thursday the 18:1 ratio Grover 502CK Locking machines arrive and I will have yet another hotrod in the FrankieSaysRelax stable of guitars.

I tried to do this switch economically, only for aesthetic reasons. The Grover’s as delivered on the LesPaul felt terrific. Tight, smooth, stayed in tune. I just didn’t like the giant button on the elegant LesPaul headstock. It just doesn’t work for me.

Great to hear from you Glenn!
frank d.

[rockabilly69]

I definitely like the Tulip buttons better.

And...I used to be anti lock tuners, but on my recent Esquire build, and on the PRS Custom 22 that I got in a trade in last year, I found that I actually like them. Yes, things can go wrong with the few extra parts, but the convenience of quicker string changes are alright with me. And you don't have to cut the strings until after they are up to pitch, and that is an advantage for strings that come off their wrap easily (ie Pyramid). Just pull the strings through, lock, tune, snip!

Obviously I wouldn't use them if I have a guitar that bordered on being a bit neck heavy, so maybe prone to dive. But for other guitars, I see nothing wrong with them.

I think some locker mechanisms work better than others. I was recommended to try a set of Fender branded Gotoh SD91 for my Tele build, and I found them to be a pain to use. And I didn't like the original PRS branded Schaller winged tuners on my PRS Custom 22. But for that guitar, I found a different set pf Schaller lockers, that had the same footprint and gear ratio, but without the wings. Instead, they some small knurled knobs that did the locking, and they work great.

Here's the ones that work great....

Klusons on my Esquire...


Schallers on my PRS...

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Yes, things can go wrong with the few extra parts, but the convenience of quicker string changes are alright with me…….Just pull the strings through, lock, tune, snip!
Obviously I wouldn't use them if I have a guitar that bordered on being a bit neck heavy, so maybe prone to dive. But for other guitars, I see nothing wrong with them.
I think some locker mechanisms work better than others.

Like everything in our lives, things are going to break. And unlike you Rocky, and Mr. DeRosa and Mr. Glennwillow, and of course not forgetting a bunch of other extremely talented people on this forum, I have limited skills and average gear to begin with. I am extremely aware of these limitations. I always have an extra guitar ready, just in case. I’m not talented enough to need specific guitars for specific tunes. Way out of my wheelhouse! But I get the angst, like driving a distance without a spare tire.
Thanks for stopping in, Cowboy!
fd

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Chickee

Thank you Mr. Willow! I am at a loss that these AllParts replacement buttons, that strictly state “replacement buttons for Grover Rotomatic machines” fit so poorly. They are a microscopic amount too tall, but just enough to not let them seat all the way like the original MilkBottle buttons do.

So, Thursday the 18:1 ratio Grover 502CK Locking machines arrive and I will have yet another hotrod in the FrankieSaysRelax stable of guitars.

I tried to do this switch economically, only for aesthetic reasons. The Grover’s as delivered on the LesPaul felt terrific. Tight, smooth, stayed in tune. I just didn’t like the giant button on the elegant LesPaul headstock. It just doesn’t work for me.

Great to hear from you Glenn!
frank d.

Hi Frank,

Yes, I, too, like those tulip shaped buttons on the tuners. I hope the new ones you ordered work out great.

I was looking at my '78 Gibson ES-335 and it has those tulip shaped buttons on the tuners. I don't think I ever noticed them before!!!



- Glenn

[Rogerblair]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Frank,

Yes, I, too, like those tulip shaped buttons on the tuners. I hope the new ones you ordered work out great.

I was looking at my '78 Gibson ES-335 and it has those tulip shaped buttons on the tuners. I don't think I ever noticed them before!!!



- Glenn

Ok, Glenn, your GUITAR GEEK score just dropped two points. 🤣
Roger

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Frank,

Yes, I, too, like those tulip shaped buttons on the tuners. I hope the new ones you ordered work out great.

I was looking at my '78 Gibson ES-335 and it has those tulip shaped buttons on the tuners. I don't think I ever noticed them before!!!



- Glenn

Oh, you are too funny!!! So now the next question is….what’s on the Les Paul you have stashed away? You know, the one I’ve been asking you to see, like forever?😹😂😹😂😹😂😹

That 335 is just killer. I told you before, you did an outstanding job with that tune. All the parts right on the mark. Some guys just got it, as they say.
Be well, my friend.
fd

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Chickee

Oh, you are too funny!!! So now the next question is….what’s on the Les Paul you have stashed away? You know, the one I’ve been asking you to see, like forever?��������������

That 335 is just killer. I told you before, you did an outstanding job with that tune. All the parts right on the mark. Some guys just got it, as they say.
Be well, my friend.
fd

Hi Frank,

Well... thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated!

Regarding my Les Paul, it's a 2002 Standard with a AAA top. I don't have a photo of it but do have it in one of my older videos, shown below.



From the video it looks like the Les Paul has those milk bottle tuner buttons. I never noticed until this very moment!

As Roger has noted, I am not much of a guitar geek after all!

Be well, Frank!

- Glenn