Which luthiers (and brands) offer lifetime warranty to all owners (used purchasers)?

[pianissimo]

Curious about this. Which luthiers (and brands) offer lifetime warranty to all owners (used purchasers)? It seems like a very, very small minority do.

PS. If you are a luthier and you read this thread, wouldn't this be such a cool thing to offer? It would differentiate yourself from the rest so easily. Because, to me, it is a clear sign that you have so much confidence in your construction, and you can take care of any problems that may arise, with ease.

[justonwo]

Most luthiers I know will take care of a new owner even if it isn’t their official policy. They are usually small operations and don’t have infinite capacity to take on after-sale work regardless of how many hands the guitar passes through. This is definitely not the place where I look for builder differentiation.

[Goat Mick]

I don’t think any small luthier will “officially” warranty a guitar past the original owner. However being nice can go a long way if you have an issue with one of their guitars that you purchased used.

[Racerbob]

Santa Cruz has pretty much always been accommodating for follow on owners. If something went wrong with the guitar they kind of consider it their ethical responsibility to correct problems.

They don't have to but often do it.

[buddyhu]

John Greven.

[The Bard Rocks]

The majority of luthiers offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner. A few give shorter warranty and many fo them stand behind their creations longer than they are required to. John Greven is famous for warranting his to whoever owns it.

But any time you get a lifetime warranty, it is wise to ask "Whose life?" There can be 3 different lives. With guitars, it's usually the luthier's. But it could be yours (which since the warranty is probably to the original owners, means the same as far as you are concerned)... or it could be the guitar's life. I have seen this with other products (never on guitars, so don't fret) where the company declares the product's lifetime is suddenly up and refuses warranty service. But these guys never tell you when you are buying it how long the product is supposed to last.

[zombywoof]

The only factory guitars that I can think of which had a transferrable warranty were the Martin D76 Centennial guitars.

[dnf777]

To answer your question, not aware of any transferable warranties like that, but not many issues discovered on old guitars (as opposed to new) would be warrantied items. Exceptions, of course. I cant vouch for actual work, but I spent almost an hour on the phone with an extremely helpful luthier at Bourgeois, working through some issues on one of their very early models I picked up used. Lots of pride was apparent, and he actually called me back after researching some of my questions.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

The majority of luthiers offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner. A few give shorter warranty and many fo them stand behind their creations longer than they are required to. John Greven is famous for warranting his to whoever owns it.

But any time you get a lifetime warranty, it is wise to ask "Whose life?" There can be 3 different lives. With guitars, it's usually the luthier's. But it could be yours (which since the warranty is probably to the original owners, means the same as far as you are concerned)... or it could be the guitar's life. I have seen this with other products (never on guitars, so don't fret) where the company declares the product's lifetime is suddenly up and refuses warranty service. But these guys never tell you when you are buying it how long the product is supposed to last.

Yes...John Greven's warranty follows the guitar regardless of who the owner is, first, second, or whatever.

He is also extraordinarily lenient/generous about what he will work on and consider as warranty service. In the past 5 years I have seen that include completely re-topping a couple of guitars, and building new necks/fingerboards for 3 or 4 guitar owners. He isn't worried about the money, or the time it takes him, he wants his guitars to be "right" for whomever owns them.

And yes, now that John is 74, his lifetime warranty is naturally going to be shorter now than it was...still for as long as he is able, he will take care of his guitars and their owners.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[scotchnspeed]

Originally Posted by Racerbob

Santa Cruz has pretty much always been accommodating for follow on owners. If something went wrong with the guitar they kind of consider it their ethical responsibility to correct problems.

They don't have to but often do it.

Ethical, or economic interest? The further you go from purchase, the more other factors play into a guitar's stability. At some point, nothing a luthier can do will prevent it from breaking...so it seems curing perceived issues to subsequent owners (to whom a warranty was not granted) is just good PR, not ethics.

[tadol]

So is your argument that having ethics is only for PR?

All of the work Santa Cruz has done for secondary owners has been done without any fanfare or self promotion - and if they do work under warranty that may not be “required”, they’ll generally ask that you not promote it. They will usually take responsibility if a problem is due to an issue with the original construction, or a failure of material used, and sometimes they may take care of other problems, either at N/C, or at a reduced cost. But none of that is guaranteed to anyone other than the original owner, and if the problem is due to abuse, or a failure to follow basic maintenance procedures, then they may not honor any claim at all. Or they might. Sometimes they’ll fix work done poorly by another shop, and sometimes they’ll help out when a working musician has an accident with their guitar. But usually, they can only do this as they can fit it in between the work they already have scheduled or promised to others.

I think most luthiers have that same basic approach - they aren’t building to get rich in a few years and then retire. Their instruments are something they are proud of, and they want to see them last as long as possible, and represent their work as well as possible. I’ve seen how luthiers look over an instrument that has been out of their hands, and out in the world working for 10, 20, 30 years, and they way they inspect it, feel it, play it, listen to it. - I don’t know if it’s ethics, or PR - sometimes, I think its simply pride -

[blindboyjimi]

John Greven is the only one I know of that clearly states this. I own mainly luthier builds and I’ve never mind paying a bit as their time is literally money. Some guys build only 10-12 guitars a year and luthiers are usually either builders or repair people. It is rare that builders do repair work and the well known repair guys rarely build complete guitars except for their friends. Tony Klassen and Leo Posch are guys that do both, but if you have a 4 year waitlist, the last thing you want to do is a re-fret when any tech can do a great job. A luthier can easily look at a guitar and know if their own construction methods contributed to the issue or neglect and will price the repair accordingly. I have no issue with that.

[scotchnspeed]

I think you are entirely misunderstanding me. PR is not a bad thing; you can also replace "PR" with "reputation."

I'm a proud SCGC owner, so I am not bashing their approach at all. I am just saying that to a subsequent owner, often years down the line, it gets hard to delineate if there is *actually* an issue that was caused by SCGC due to materials or construction.

Therefore, when "Bob 3rd owner" wants SCGC to repair a loose brace on a heavily gigged guitar, it is not a question of "ethics" (i.e., a clear duty to fix something SCGC caused), but rather good ol' reputation management. There is no duty to Bob, or to assume responsibility for regular wear and tear, especially under the guise of an "ethical" responsibility to ensure such. That's what I was clarifying.

Words get thrown around on this forum a lot that would suggest things being different than what they really are (other examples - "sustainable" "employee owned" etc...).

Originally Posted by tadol

So is your argument that having ethics is only for PR?

All of the work Santa Cruz has done for secondary owners has been done without any fanfare or self promotion - and if they do work under warranty that may not be “required”, they’ll generally ask that you not promote it. They will usually take responsibility if a problem is due to an issue with the original construction, or a failure of material used, and sometimes they may take care of other problems, either at N/C, or at a reduced cost. But none of that is guaranteed to anyone other than the original owner, and if the problem is due to abuse, or a failure to follow basic maintenance procedures, then they may not honor any claim at all. Or they might. Sometimes they’ll fix work done poorly by another shop, and sometimes they’ll help out when a working musician has an accident with their guitar. But usually, they can only do this as they can fit it in between the work they already have scheduled or promised to others.

I think most luthiers have that same basic approach - they aren’t building to get rich in a few years and then retire. Their instruments are something they are proud of, and they want to see them last as long as possible, and represent their work as well as possible. I’ve seen how luthiers look over an instrument that has been out of their hands, and out in the world working for 10, 20, 30 years, and they way they inspect it, feel it, play it, listen to it. - I don’t know if it’s ethics, or PR - sometimes, I think its simply pride -

[boombox]

I'm pretty sure Stonebridge/Furch offered a transferable warranty at one point. I know too that if you buy a second-hand traded-in Avalon from Avalon themselves, they used to offer a new lifetime warranty on it. Roger Bucknall doesn't offer a warranty transfer, but I've read is very accommodating towards second-hand Fylde owners.

[HFox]

Originally Posted by tadol

So is your argument that having ethics is only for PR?

All of the work Santa Cruz has done for secondary owners has been done without any fanfare or self promotion - and if they do work under warranty that may not be “required”, they’ll generally ask that you not promote it. They will usually take responsibility if a problem is due to an issue with the original construction, or a failure of material used, and sometimes they may take care of other problems, either at N/C, or at a reduced cost. But none of that is guaranteed to anyone other than the original owner, and if the problem is due to abuse, or a failure to follow basic maintenance procedures, then they may not honor any claim at all. Or they might. Sometimes they’ll fix work done poorly by another shop, and sometimes they’ll help out when a working musician has an accident with their guitar. But usually, they can only do this as they can fit it in between the work they already have scheduled or promised to others.

I think most luthiers have that same basic approach - they aren’t building to get rich in a few years and then retire. Their instruments are something they are proud of, and they want to see them last as long as possible, and represent their work as well as possible. I’ve seen how luthiers look over an instrument that has been out of their hands, and out in the world working for 10, 20, 30 years, and they way they inspect it, feel it, play it, listen to it. - I don’t know if it’s ethics, or PR - sometimes, I think its simply pride -

^^^^^^^^^ THIS IN CAPITAL LETTERS