Do bone bridge pins really improve tonality...or just look cool?

[Wade Hampton]

And now the usual suspects on the subject of bridge pins have aligned themselves!


whm

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

And now the usual suspects on the subject of bridge pins have aligned themselves!


whm

Yep, the ones who hear differences in bridge pins vs those who don't think they're hearing a difference and if they are, they're mistaken about what's causing the difference.

My money is on the owner of the guitar in question.

[Kestralkane]

The only time I truly noticed a huge difference was on those metal pins on a friends modern deluxe. The wave and ring was just different. Wasn’t a huge fan but that’s the only time I’ve even noticed.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

No, I think we can argue about it! . For me on some guitars it’s hard to beat the look of ivoroid pins, and on guitars with rosewood appointments snakewood pins look pretty dapper.

Naturally, your mileage may vary....


whm

I welcome your arguments, Wade, even when you're wrong. And I'm sure you're right about the dapper thing. But the OP asked about "cool," and in that regard ivoroid takes a back seat to ebony any day.

It's so nice to have you voice back in the fray, my friend.

[FoxHound4690]

Bridge pins do absolutely nothing to a guitar except bling up the bridge

I bought a set of brass ones a couple years ago and they did absolutely nothing to the tone of the guitar. didn't make it any better, didn't make it any worse, just did nothing whatsoever...

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi JP

Perhaps I should have started my post responding to your post with the words…

"Me too".

You said you've had various experiences when swapping bone and ebony pins, and I have too. So I was identifying with your thought, not discounting your experiences.

....apologies for misunderstanding your post boss...and the subsequent over reaction....I guess I was a little touchy yesterday...

[Goat Mick]

I swap out the bridge pins on all my guitars with either ebony, snakewood or Tusq pins. Normally I hear very little change and usually it's just the guitar becoming slightly more robust. When I got my Farida OT-22 I popped in a set of Tusq pins at the first string change and the guitar's tone noticeably changed for the worse. Just sounded dead and lifeless. So I pulled out the Tusq pins and put in a set of snakewood pins I had laying around and the guitar's tone returned in all it's glory and also seemed to have a little extra depth. I will always swap out the pins on my guitars because I just hate the flimsy plastic pins they come with.

[UncleJesse]

I always opt for the lightest weight pins. I've replaced bone several times with plastic ivoroid or ebony and I've always thought it improved slightly. Less mass = more movement of the top is my line of thinking.

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

Bone pins weigh more than the stock plastic ones, so swapping them in makes it a bit harder for the strings to move the bridge, if Isaac Newton is to be believed. This is especially true at higher frequencies, so the balance of the sound tends to shift a bit toward the bass end of things. The difference is about 5 grams, which is roughly the difference between an ebony bridge and a rosewood one, more or less.

The added mass also alters resonant frequencies in the top. A lot of the 'voice' of the guitar depends on how the resonances of the different parts of the guitar line up. In some cases, when things are 'close', a small change in one part will have an out sized effect on the tone by altering the alignment of some resonances. A change of a couple of Hz in the low 'main air' resonance can produce a 'wolf' note, or cure one. In some cases even a change in relative humidity will do it.

Where you end up depends, of course, on where you started. The resonant pitches of the parts of the guitar vary depending on the wood and the construction, so a small change that makes a big difference on one guitar might have no noticeable effect on another, and influence a third in the opposite way. Blanket statements about 'the effect' of changing out things like bridge pins or tuners based on what somebody got on one or two guitars have to be taken with a grain of salt. The only real way to know is to try it on your guitar. Fortunately, bridge pins (except for Depleted Uranium ones) are pretty cheap.

Alan's explanations on bridge pins were a huge revelation to me (he's explained it in several other threads), and it goes a long way to understanding why pins can have an effect in one guitar, while the same pins may have little or no noticeable effect in another guitar. It's worth quoting his post from Page 1.

Personally, I don't replace the pins that the guitar came with unless a pin breaks or I don't care for the look. If there's something off with the sound, I might consider it, but I'll try plenty of other things first.

[Guitarplayer_PR]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

I just recently bought a set of bone bridge pins for my new Martin 000, and maybe in the back of my mind I'm thinking it might brighten the sound a bit...maybe increase the volume a tad...but deep down I know that I'm doing it mostly for esthetic value, and only hoping the swap from the stock plastic pins might give an already great guitar a little "boost" tonally. I haven't gotten them in the mail just yet...but I'm just tossing this out for sake of conversation.

Am I decieved?

Seriously...do bone pins REALLY change the tonality of a guitar at all?

No.

The two main points of contact (three if you count the fretwire) for a string are the nut and the saddle. The bridge pin just keeps the string in place

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

I just recently bought a set of bone bridge pins for my new Martin 000, and maybe in the back of my mind I'm thinking it might brighten the sound a bit...maybe increase the volume a tad...but deep down I know that I'm doing it mostly for esthetic value, and only hoping the swap from the stock plastic pins might give an already great guitar a little "boost" tonally. I haven't gotten them in the mail just yet...but I'm just tossing this out for sake of conversation.

Am I decieved?

Seriously...do bone pins REALLY change the tonality of a guitar at all?

Generally I think they are just for looks, but I did have the tone of two smaller guitars change slightly when brass pins were installed. They looked like junk though so I took them out

[Mike McLenison]

Nothing noticeable between bone and plastic. I started using titanium and noticed a wider range. More "ping." Old strings sounds newer.

[TDavis]

Being the OP of this opinion-fest...I must chime back in to report that I have indeed installed a set of bone Bob Colosi pins into the bridge of my Martin 000-18...and to my old ears, there may be the slightest increase in brightness of tone across the strings when strummed...maybe...

...or there might be no difference at all.

They DO look very cool though.

[MrDB]

I've put bone pins in both my 000-28 and my 000-42. I have 68 yr old ears so am not the proper judge of any difference in tone or response.

I installed them just for looks and so am happy with the change.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by FoxHound4690

Bridge pins do absolutely nothing to a guitar except bling up the bridge...

You are entitled to your opinion, but probably shouldn't state it as hard fact when a lot of folks, like me, would disagree with you.

The way I think this works in *some* cases is the same way as color blindness, which has many variants and different levels of being able to discern colors. The same thing is with sound, particularly overtones. If you can stipulate that animals can hear tones that humans cannot, then could not different humans have different aural sensitivities? And then there are folks that just aren't aware of the nuances of sound.

To argue my point, let's forget about bridge pins for a moment and talk about guitar sounds. Pick a string any string. Can you identify the fundamental? If you listen closely, do you hear any other tones or pitches, in any octave besides the fundamental? Sometimes its a matter of knowing what to listen for. Going on, can you identify if one or more strings in a set is louder than others, or seemingly brighter than others? Are some more pleasing to your ear than others. Perhaps all, under certain conditions are extremely pleasant and well balanced, or the opposite.

Probably the mark of a well made guitar with appropriately selected strings with reasonable quality bridge pins will produce somewhere between acceptable and glorious sound. But maybe a trained ear, capable of hearing nuance, having an idea of what he wants to hear might want to make slight changes to the sound, either overall or changing the string to string balance. In these cases, the right application of changes in bridge pins can make enough of a change to bring that guitar's sound from acceptable to fully satisfying.

But as I said, there are those who appreciate the nuances, and those who don't. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.