River Flows in You in A, not G (no capo)

[Lamenramen]

Hi,

I have some tab for River Flows in You but it's in the key of A. No capo. Barres all over the place or at least finger 1-4 or 1-5 stretches alot. 99% of people use a capo and it looks like it's in G. Much easier.

Would you guys encourage me to keep trying in A or just use the capo? In G I have no doubt that I could play this song, but A seems to kick the difficulty up a significant bit. I don't imagine it will ever be as smooth as with a capo in G.
But it will make my hands stronger, but is this needless complexity?

i recall Tommy Emmanuel used to wonder how some songs could be played without a capo or that using a capo is weak sauce (my paraphrase) but then he met the artist whose song he was playing, and the artist said, "oh, capo 5" I wish I could recall where Tommy said this.

My point: play the music the easiest possible way every time, and wait for pieces that truly require the stretches and barres b/c they will find you eventually....or take the opportunity to level up my hand strength and stretchy skills with this song even though it doesn't require it?

Another puzzling point: I've often noticed that many of the fingerstylists I see usually use g/c/d/a/bm shapes, but not so much songs in E A or B (unless they are using a capo). Is this a true statement?

side note: in computer programming, I often tried to do things the hard way, figuring that I needed to get everything impeccable. I don't think this served me well (this idea that I need to knock out the hardest obstacles first, saving the easier ones for later). Apparently in the real world alot of good programmers just take the easier (but not necessarily sloppier) way and focus their brain power on a technically more complex way only when it's really needed. I was always concerned that if I take the easier way all the time when I need to take a harder path I won't ever have practiced it and fooled myself into thinking I'm better than I really am.

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

...My point: play the music the easiest possible way every time, and wait for pieces that truly require the stretches and barres b/c they will find you eventually....or take the opportunity to level up my hand strength and stretchy skills with this song even though it doesn't require it?

If you really like the song and the idea of playing it, yeah, take the opportunity. If you've got small hands, you might want to "pick your fights" carefully, though.

You can do things your own way and gain a lot in the process, but, if what you want is to play an accurate version of someone else’s material, I have two pieces of advice for you.

The first is to make sure you’re working with an accurate transcription/tab, and, if you’re figuring it out yourself, to go back to square one if you think something’s not right. Videos are a big help, because you really don’t want to spend too much time on dead-end streets. As I said above, there’s often something to be gained from doing things your own way, but too much of that kind of frustration can put you off the guitar real quick. Like food poisoning.

The second piece of advice is to be considered once you’re sure of the accuracy of your tab or whatever, and that advice is to work as hard as you can and be prepared to suffer, because this is the stuff that will make you a better player, maybe after months of work.

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

...I was always concerned that if I take the easier way all the time when I need to take a harder path I won't ever have practiced it and fooled myself into thinking I'm better than I really am.

I agree. The important thing is the ability to instilll in your listeners whatever you want them to feel, and, in order to get to that point, you have to have fun and you have to have technique. Your mission, should you choose to accept it , is to find a balance between those two approaches.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

Hi,

I have some tab for River Flows in You but it's in the key of A. No capo. Barres all over the place or at least finger 1-4 or 1-5 stretches alot. 99% of people use a capo and it looks like it's in G. Much easier.

Would you guys encourage me to keep trying in A or just use the capo? In G I have no doubt that I could play this song, but A seems to kick the difficulty up a significant bit. I don't imagine it will ever be as smooth as with a capo in G.
But it will make my hands stronger, but is this needless complexity?

Yes. There is no virtue - none - in making something more difficult than it needs to be. No serious player does that.

However, there could be a question about whether there might be advantages in playing it in A - such as the open 6th string becoming available for a low E bass, or some other technical detail that is actually easier in A than in G.

One important factor - and I don't know the song or the composer - is whether it was written in that key for a reason to do with the guitar, rather than the voice. IOW, I suspect the key of A was chosen to suit the writer/singer's voice. That's not really a difficult key on guitar (unless there are lot of minor chords), but maybe they chose the capo on 2 for G because they just preferred the sound of those shapes.

If so, the only reason to choose to play it in A would be if you can think of something you can do on guitar (something you can add to the song) that sounds better in A. If you find the key of A a struggle anyway, then I would guess that doesn't apply.

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

i recall Tommy Emmanuel used to wonder how some songs could be played without a capo or that using a capo is weak sauce (my paraphrase) but then he met the artist whose song he was playing, and the artist said, "oh, capo 5" I wish I could recall where Tommy said this.

There you go, trust the master. Using a capo is not "cheating".

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

My point: play the music the easiest possible way every time, and wait for pieces that truly require the stretches and barres b/c they will find you eventually....or take the opportunity to level up my hand strength and stretchy skills with this song even though it doesn't require it?

The former. Definitely.

If you want to exercise your hands, there are plenty of exercises you can do, but remember that just playing the guitar (the easiest way you can) is improving your dexterity. Playing some easy stuff for half an hour is better exercise than playing something difficult for 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

Another puzzling point: I've often noticed that many of the fingerstylists I see usually use g/c/d/a/bm shapes, but not so much songs in E A or B (unless they are using a capo). Is this a true statement?

Could be. The key of G has the fewest barre chords, and the maximum use of open strings. That's not only easy for strummers, but for fingerstylists too. After all, a lot of fingerpickers tune to alternative tunings to give themselves even more open strings to play with.

Having said that, fingerstyle blues in E is very common. But then again, blues in E will use all the open strings too, at least occasionally, because it's a mix of minor and major.

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

side note: in computer programming, I often tried to do things the hard way, figuring that I needed to get everything impeccable. I don't think this served me well (this idea that I need to knock out the hardest obstacles first, saving the easier ones for later). Apparently in the real world alot of good programmers just take the easier (but not necessarily sloppier) way and focus their brain power on a technically more complex way only when it's really needed. I was always concerned that if I take the easier way all the time when I need to take a harder path I won't ever have practiced it and fooled myself into thinking I'm better than I really am.

Well, you shouldn't fool yourself, of course, but - like I say - there is no advantage in making things more difficult than they have to be.

An additional point with music is that you want the piece you're playing to be well within your technical capacity - not stretching at your limits. That's so that you can focus on adding expression, controlling the tone: making every single note sound as good as you possibly can.
As I pointed out on another thread with a Tommy Emmanuel video, you can tell that - despite the piece being highly complex - he would be well capable of playing something far more difficult, or of playing that piece a lot faster than he was playing it. But he was using his spare chops to make it sound clean and smooth, to improve the tone, the sustain, the expression. That's real musicianship.

[Lamenramen]

Thanks guys. It seems there are two different opinions. The song is a Fingerstyle song and the tab is accurate in both G and A. The version in A is much harder though. Sungha Jung plays it with a capo. It’s a wordless song and originally written by Yurima who is a piano artist. It’s actually very famous I would say. I believe the original song is in A.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

Thanks guys. It seems there are two different opinions. The song is a Fingerstyle song and the tab is accurate in both G and A. The version in A is much harder though. Sungha Jung plays it with a capo. It’s a wordless song and originally written by Yurima who is a piano artist. It’s actually very famous I would say. I believe the original song is in A.

There's your clue. Written by a pianist. Guitarist plays it with a capo.

As an instrumental (I just listened!), the key doesn't matter anyway. Yiruma would have chosen A because it would have sat under his fingers - as a pianist - best that way.
For guitar, clearly, it sits under the fingers best in G. But you could play it in G with no capo if you like, or a capo higher up. Just depends on the stretches involved.

Of course, the better you know the original - or whatever guitar version you're following - the more your pitch memory will make you feel that key is "right".

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

...originally written by Yurima who is a piano artist.

In that case, follow JonPR’s advice. Easier is usually better. I was referring to taking on a difficult piece of music with no doubts as to the accuracy of a transcription (for the same instrument).

[Lamenramen]

Thank you for these insights. They seem spot on for this piece. Harder ones will come no doubt.