What's going on at Taylor Guitars?

[steelvibe]

Do I prefer to play them in person? Yes.

However, my last four guitars were all bought sound unheard. None were returned, two were sold. The two that were sold were not because I didn't like them. I spent a great deal of time researching before clicking "buy" on every one of these instruments. I hope that this isn't just another move away from brick and mortar shops, but often my hopes never materialize.

It's not a third-world problem....yet.

[sinistral]

If you add up the number of Taylor guitars at Guitar Center, Sam Ash and Rudy’s Music in Manhattan, there are easily over 300 guitars to try out. If you’re right-handed. Here’s an example of GC’s selection:







Across the three stores, I doubt they there are even four left-handed guitars at any given time, and Sam Ash is the only one that carries them (you’ll notice that none of the guitars above is left-handed). Buying online has been a boon to left-handed guitarist, and to a large population of people who don’t live anywhere near a well-stocked guitar store. The suburban GC’s I’ve visited don’t have anywhere near the selection of the Manhattan GC. The same goes for a lot of “mom-and-pop” stores. How many of those will have, say, a 618 and 818 in stock?

The pandemic accelerated the shift to online buying of guitars, as it did for a lot of other products that people traditionally bought in person. It’s great to try a guitar before you buy it, but if the guitar you are interested in is 1,000 miles away, buying it online—and returning it if you don’t like it—is a lot more convenient that driving or flying somewhere to try it.

I haven’t noticed any diminution of the availability of Taylor guitars in the NYC area, but that area is dominated by the two megastores and Rudy’s, which caters to a higher-end clientele. Is Taylor putting the squeeze on smaller shops? $40k in inventory doesn’t sound like a lot to me. There must be over $500k in guitars on the wall at GC in the photos above. And even though Rudy’s has fewer guitars in its Taylor room in SoHo, there’s probably over $250k in guitars there, too, since they are mostly higher end.

[Zissou Intern]

So if I understand all of this correctly, Taylor builds guitars and wants to make that as profitable as possible by responding to current market trends and consumer desires.

[RP]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

From the original post and the posts that followed, LOTS of assumptions were made with zero back up. We've got:
1."Taylor is going to a DTC sales model" (direct to consumer)
2. "Mom and Pop stores can't compete and can't afford Taylor's inventory requirements"
3. And various other doom and gloom scenarios, none of which are true.

LA Guitar Sales very clearly states that this is a "new old stock" house cleaning. Here you go:
https://www.laguitarsales.com/index....r-guitars.html

Gotta love the internet...

Yes, that is what it says, but I have a feeling that it may mean something very different...

[GCWaters]

Originally Posted by RP

Yes, that is what it says, but I have a feeling that it may mean something very different...

Well, there you go….

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by rllink

The three Taylor dealers within driving distance of me, one is a GC and the other two are independent guitar stores, commonly referred to as"mom and pop" stores. The two independent dealers have more Taylor's in stock than the GC. So I don't know where all this doom and gloom and where this "mom and pop stores can't carry them anymore" is coming from.

I'm not sure where you are in the region but independents I'd call strong or good are surviving and growing. Dave's has 4 stores now. The Heid family owned stores also in band business are making it. One of the Milwaukee area stores too.

They all have same things in common. Competence, good service, reasonable pricing, and don't do all the business either brick and mortar or online. The Guitar Center stores remain uninspiring, often with shopworn and poorly priced stuff. It is rare when they have more than a few talented and competent staff members.

I have seen some changes in franchises. Two sellers no longer have PRS and Gibson. It looks like you might need the Gibson franchise to sell Mesa amps now.

Taylor could also be feeling a post pandemic boom scenario as other product niches have.

I'm not worried one way or another but also not such a one brand fan/cult type player. Between two of us we have 5 guitar brands here.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by fpuhan

But it bothers me a bit to think that someone who wants to try out a guitar before buying, and who may not relish the idea of going through the return process, might be put off buying a Taylor.

The return process, or the after-sales service like warranty claims. Having them go through dealers isn't just an advantage for the customer, as far as I can see...

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

PS. EVERY big guitar company has inventory requirements of their customers. Do you think Fender/Martin/Gibson/etc just says: "Hey whatever you want to order...no minimum".

And why not, exactly? A sale is a sale, and how would that be different than an end-customer ordering from Taylor? Apart bulk rebates and margin for the dealer of course, but that's hardly a problem of the brand... FWIW, I bought a Cordoba from a dealer who don't usually carry the brand a few years back; it was no problem for them to order just 1.
In fact, do these big brands also impose to have a minimum number of the current production models in stock (without caring what dealers do with the older ones), like is common in the car/MC industry?

[LAPlayer]

Things at Taylor were different starting a year ago (when I became aware). Their presence at NAMM was reduced to cube wherein you could discuss guitars, without any guitars present for display in the main hall. They also announced then that they were going to begin selling direct to consumer.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by RP

I used to be a Taylor fanboy and for no good reason I've slipped on to other brands....

Me too

I was a rabid "Taylor guy". I'm not sure when things started getting "weird" there. I can't put my finger on it either, but they discontinued the my favorite models, introduced lackluster replacement models, obsoleted previously good pickups and introduced mediocre ones.

Some of the things that make me scratch my head:

- the whole redefining of their mid-high end models to use scrap wood ....oh sorry...."reclaimed and repurposed urban wood" (meaning junk trees cut down by a city). But call them the same models as when they were made from prestigious woods.

- they had a killer line of solidbody electrics. They killed that line saying they aren't an electric guitar company. Then they introduced Powers electric guitars espousing how wonderful it is to sell electric guitars.

- they had a killer line of stripped down acoustics called "The Acoustic Line". Best bang-for-the-buck Taylors ever made.......they discontinued them. A few years later they introduce a mediocre line of stripped down acoustics called "The American Dream".

- the whole V class bracing controversy.

- Suddenly, after years and years of proclaiming that Elixir strings are best and their guitars are designed with Elixir in mind, suddenly saying "oh, no wait I didn't mean that...I meant D'Adarrio strings are best". I like D'Adarrio & its not about them. It's the disingenuous way Taylor changed their story.

- Now changing the way they sell through dealers.

2010-ish Taylor guitars are my favorite production guitars. I love(d) the Taylor company. I have probably ten Taylor shirts. I currently own five Taylor guitars. I went to multiple Taylor Roadshows just to geek out over them. I was the most rabidly loyal customer. They changed who they are and my emotional loyalty has dissolved.

When you lose the relationship with your hottest customers......imagine what happens to all the lukewarm customers.

[EZYPIKINS]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

Especially now the pandemic is “over” and lots of aspiring guitarists have realized the 10,000 hour rule is a real thing…

Paul

From 1978-1988 I averaged out about 12,000 hours.

Throughout the 90's not quite as much as I was doing allot of 30-45 minute concert openers, and oddball specials that were good money but less play time.

2000's band getting older. Much more studio time than actual gigging. Still between 500-600 hours of rehearsal per year. Besides studio time. Which anybody who knows studio. Is allot of hurry up and wait.

[fazool]

I never ascribed to the 10,000 hour rule.

It turns out (like a lot of socially accepted statistics) it was just one guy who said it as an idea and it stuck as true.

[RP]

Fazool: I'm not going to quote post #54, but you pretty much summed up my thoughts in a way that I didn't or couldn't. I got into plenty of discussions regarding the overwhelming Taylor trend away from pure acoustics without electronics. It resulted in a circular argument that customers overwhelmingly purchased Taylors with cutaway and electronics to which I replied, "That's because you couldn't (at the time) go into a store and find a 300-900 series Taylor without electronics or cutaway. I'm not dissing Taylor, but just saying that my favorite Taylors are no longer produced by them. My favorite Taylors were those modified by Andy Powers around 2013-15 without cutaway or electronics...

[evening_crow]

Thanks for posting this! I snatched up a 514CE Mahogany/Cedar V Class from them. Should be here in a couple of days.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by RP

Fazool: I'm not going to quote post #54, but you pretty much summed up my thoughts in a way that I didn't or couldn't. I got into plenty of discussions regarding the overwhelming Taylor trend away from pure acoustics without electronics. It resulted in a circular argument that customers overwhelmingly purchased Taylors with cutaway and electronics to which I replied, "That's because you couldn't (at the time) go into a store and find a 300-900 series Taylor without electronics or cutaway. I'm not dissing Taylor, but just saying that my favorite Taylors are no longer produced by them. My favorite Taylors were those modified by Andy Powers around 2013-15 without cutaway or electronics...

Yep…those were my favorites too. Only “innovation” since then that works for me is the Grand Pacifics, which actually sound good with the V bracing. No surprise since Andy has said he designed V bracing with GPs in mind.

[JackC1]

Here's their online dealers list

https://www.taylorguitars.com/dealers/online

Almost all of them are B&M stores. Seems that Taylor's "online transition" might be simply the wish of their traditional B&M dealers trying to transition to the online model.

I was half expecting to see Amazon there