Adjusting levels on mixer - help needed

I am trying to understand if there is a preferred way to adjust the levels on my Yamaha EMX512sc. The manual tells me that I should put the master at about half (there is a mark indicating where it should be by default) and that I should then adjust the levels on the channels so that when I put the signal through (guitar, vocals, etc.) I can see the lights on the level meter reach "0" occasionally. I have not been able to do this because of how loud the system gets. I have not seen a single bulb lighted on the meter yet. Is there a better way to do this? Should I just leave the master where it is suggested to be and adjust the channel levels to suit? Or, should I boost the channel levels up and then keep the master lower, adjusting it until I get to the desire level? Will I get better sound quality doing it one way over the other, or will either method yield the same results? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Bob Womack]

From what I can tell looking at your unit, that would probably be because the stereo master is up too far. The stereo master is on the right side 1/3 of the way up directly above the two main out jacks. Try pulling it down enough that you can get the input level set properly.

Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

From what I can tell looking at your unit, that would probably be because the stereo master is up too far. The stereo master is on the right side 1/3 of the way up directly above the two main out jacks. Try pulling it down enough that you can get the input level set properly.

Bob

The manual tells me that this knob (master) should be set to the indicated mark, which is 6 out of 10 if there were numbers, and that I should then bring the channel levels up until I can get the input signals to push the meter to "0". It becomes painfully loud well before then. If I bring the master way down, as you suggest, I can then bring the channel levels way up. Still, the meter does not show any activity.

[Bob Womack]

Try closing the master all the way and inputting your guitar at full volume to see if you get some meter activity. The optimum level on a master fader like this varies with whatever room you are in. From the literature, it looks like you are driving a 500 watt amp. If you are in a small room and your meters display level AFTER the master, you can expect the volume to drive you into the afterlife before it shows much meter activity.

Of course, the other possibility is that the meters are malfunctioning. Take it somewhere where you can crank it without reducing your ears to glowing cinders and then look for meter activity.

Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

your meters display level AFTER the master, you can expect the volume to drive you into the afterlife before it shows much meter activity.

Bob

Thanks for the help.

I think this explains it. I think these meters display levels after the master. The manual says "The L and R meters show the level of the signal output from the MAIN OUT jack." It then goes on to say that "The Main Out signal also passes through the internal power amp and is then output at the SPEAKERS jack."

I think what all of of this means is that these level meters do not indicate my input levels, but rather what the system is putting out to the speakers (Main Out or Speaker jacks). This PA mixer puts out 500 Watts RMS per side at 4 ohms (350 per side at 8 ohms) and my speakers are pretty efficient, so, yes, my ears will probably need to bleed before I can get these meters going properly unless I am outside and willing to upset the neighbors.

Does this make sense? Am I way off? If I am correct, then I do not know why the manual tells me to keep the master at 6 and then take the levels up on the channels until I get the meters to "0." Perhaps they assume that whoever is using this playing with a band in a large venue?

[mchalebk]

I took a look at the manual for this mixer and I think you're reading it right. However, I don't think they've given you a very good way to set your levels. If you have efficient speakers, you're going to get a lot of volume without taxing the system.

I would have preferred that they give clip indicators on each channel, so you can set the inputs up properly without turning up the Master at all. I would turn the Master volume down pretty low, and just try to get the input levels into the middle section (maybe 3-7 range) for all of your inputs. Make sure the sound is really clean on every input. If you hear the slightest hint of distortion, back off some on that channel. Then, after your relative volume levels are set reasonably, adjust the Master to get the desired overall sound level.

Without any kind of level or clip indication for each input, you're going to have to use the trial and error method of setup. Annoying, perhaps, but not that big a deal.

Originally Posted by mchalebk

I took a look at the manual for this mixer and I think you're reading it right. However, I don't think they've given you a very good way to set your levels. If you have efficient speakers, you're going to get a lot of volume without taxing the system.

I would have preferred that they give clip indicators on each channel, so you can set the inputs up properly without turning up the Master at all. I would turn the Master volume down pretty low, and just try to get the input levels into the middle section (maybe 3-7 range) for all of your inputs. Make sure the sound is really clean on every input. If you hear the slightest hint of distortion, back off some on that channel. Then, after your relative volume levels are set reasonably, adjust the Master to get the desired overall sound level.

Without any kind of level or clip indication for each input, you're going to have to use the trial and error method of setup. Annoying, perhaps, but not that big a deal.

Thanks for the tips! This system is way over powered for my needs. I doubt I will ever have a chance to tax it. I would have gotten the EMX212s or 312sc, but this one came up for sale (like new condition used) locally for a great price. It weighs the same as the 212, just has a lot more power and compression, so I decided to get it. The speakers are EV SX100+. I am very happy with the sound of the set up, I just want to make sure that I know how to use it properly to make the best of it. Thanks to you and Bob, I am getting there.

[leeasam]

we have a EMX5000 unit at church. 500W for our small sanctuary we have 3 settings for the wattage output. we have ours set at 100W, we cab go 100W or 300W or 500W for a smaller room 100W actually will get plenty loud!! what we can do withthe 100W setting is get the channel faders up to where they should be without blowing the windows out of the church.

[leeasam]

I do see from photos of the unit, it does not look like it has watt limiting ability.

Originally Posted by leeasam

I do see from photos of the unit, it does not look like it has watt limiting ability.

No, it does not.

[Bob Womack]

Yeah, I based my second message on pulling down the manual and working my way through it. It is possible to make a manual too simplistic, and this one looked that way to me but I didn't want to say it.

Bob

[Bobby1note]

Do you have a PFL button on the channels? (PreFade Listen)?

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Yeah, I based my second message on pulling down the manual and working my way through it. It is possible to make a manual too simplistic, and this one looked that way to me but I didn't want to say it.

Bob

The manual is actually quite helpful in some ways, but it is overly simplistic in others and downright misleading/unclear in certain passages. There are also some typos and grammatical errors, which annoy me more than they should.

[Bob Womack]

After studying the two thick manuals that make up the instructions and tutorial for a brand new Solid State Logic 4000 G Series professional console (this was in 1990), I will probably never respect another mixer manual again. It was clear that they sent home the techno-dweebs and slide rule types and brought in a team of screen and comedy writers. That was the most thorough but entertaining manual I ever read. We sold the console but I kept a manual set. Line6 took the same tactic with their POD 2.0 manual and it was a pleasure to learn how to use it.

Bob