Guitar Scam - Gibson J-29 Sold (stupidly) through Craigslist

[beatcomber]

https://www.trulia.com/p/az/tucson/2...05--2114375389

"This area is known for its drug addicts, a lot of untreated mental health patients. Crime rate is very high in this area. If you’re looking for something cheap, easy, and temporary, this is the spot, I’d just hope you are able to handle yourself if anything ever happens."

"Meth house, bike theft chop shop, high crime, slum lords and most rentals filled with section 8 or other government rent assistance programs."

[guitararmy]

That situation really stinks. I hope by some chance your guitar is recovered!

[Lee Callicutt]

I'm genuinely sorry this had to happen to you. Not that anyone ever deserves to be scammed, but having purchased from you here on the forum, I can say unequivocally that you are the last person who should ever be taken advantage of.

[mattcran]

Wow! Always verify by logging in to your actual account! I caught myself almost forgetting to do this on the Les Paul I sold last weekend. I generally log in and initiate a transfer to my bank before shipping just to make sure.

Sorry!

[Bronzeback]

I've sold a twice through local CL to buyers from out of town. One was in the Netherlands. Both sounded a little fishy, but PP payment was made, I transferred the cash to my local bank account before shipping, and all was well with no issues. Still, I was nervous about it but figured with the money showing on my bank statement it must be there, and it was. Sorry you're having to deal with this!

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Martz911

It was sent to the following address:

Beth Davenport
2444 North Balboa Ave
Apt. 6
Tucson, AZ 85705

Oh no! I'm so sorry. I live in Tucson, and that address is in a part of town about which I expressly advised my wife to never stop and get out of the car for any reason. Anyone who can afford a Gibson most likely has the income to not be forced to live in that part of town. I call the area "Strip of the walking dead," since you see mostly homeless folk and drug addicts hang around the strip clubs, pawn shops, loan sharks and dollar stores.

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

[RP]

Originally Posted by M19

Beth Davenport? Wasn't that the name of Rockford's lawyer girlfriend?

I thought the same thing....

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Martz911

A
If you live in Tucson and would like to visit this address with a baseball bat in hand, that would be even better. Only kidding. I think.

No way. I wouldn't even go there with a gun in hand. Is it possible that this is a case of not only guitar theft, but identity theft as well? If so, whoever has your guitar now most likely does not even live at that address. All the more reason to get the FBI involved.

You could also consider a private eye or something along those lines. Not long ago, I watched a TV documentary about some company in Phoenix, AZ, that specializes in going after people who are delinquent on bills or other payments. Those guys pack firearms and are not afraid of using them. You could find out whether they'd take on a job from an individual or whether they only get hired by companies. Unfortunately I don't remember the name.

Would it make sense to stop by one of the many pawn shops in the area and see if they spot your Gibson?

Definitely get TPD involved, though. I hope you have reported the guitar as stolen already? If indeed this scam was initiated by someone living in that area, they're unlikely to be highly skilled criminals. All the pawn shops are required by law to run serial numbers and check for stolen goods. I think the chances of getting your guitar back may not be as bad as you think. I certainly hope so.

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Godfather

+1...I do exactly the same. If I am selling something small enough to transport, the deal is made at the local State Police Post parking lot. If it is a large item at my home, I always have at least two other adults there, one female and one male. I always CMA.

Mere curiosity: Why one female and one male?

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by downtime

Wow, that is brutal!...It sounds like you took precautions and none of the typical red flags were there to suggest a scam. ...I'm not sure there is a 100% safe way to do an Internet transaction...

Actually, no precautions were taken. There are many secure ways to sell on line - the first is (as described below) make sure you have the money by checking your PayPal account and transferring the money into your bank account prior to shipping.

Originally Posted by dgt178

....I would never ship an item without full payment in my bank account.....any other arrangements would be unacceptable......

Originally Posted by M19

Seriously, I don't ship until the money comes OUT of PayPal and into my bank account. Them's my terms.

This exactly. And I tell all buyers, "your guitar will be shipped after the full payment has cleared my PayPal account (and been transferred).

Originally Posted by Aaron Smith

... This is going to make me seriously reconsider using Paypal for deals like this. ...

Why? This has nothing at all to do with PayPal.

Originally Posted by colder

I've heard of this. They send a fake paypal email to make you think the payment has been sent?

If it's a fake PayPal email, you simply log into your PayPal account to verify the activity on your account. No authorized activity means scam.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by HeyMikey

Another thing you can try is to go contact the police Dept of the buyer and see if they can do anything to assist.

The police department can't do anything without a crime report and suspect information. A seller enters into an agreement to sell a product, they ship the product without obtaining payment.......................... You can file a fraud/theft report afterwards they will have a detective look into it but no one can be identified as the buyer/scammer. No photo, no fingerprints, likely no real name... in short, nada. Even if the address is legit, without knowledge of the perpetrator's identification, you don't have a suspect.

[guitar george]

In most cases Paypal credits a sellers account without any confirmation that the buyer has received the goods. For large amounts or new Paypal account holders, etc. they will hold funds for various lengths of time. Any available funds can then be transferred to the sellers bank account. Paypal will also debit the sellers account or attempt to collect from the seller, after an investigation, if the buyer has reported non-delivery. So, even though you have the money in your bank account, it's still not 100% yours until the buyer has acknowledged receipt, left feedback or not filed a claim of non delivery within a specific length of time.

[v32 finish]

Originally Posted by guitar george

In most cases Paypal credits a sellers account without any confirmation that the buyer has received the goods. For large amounts or new Paypal account holders, etc. they will hold funds for various lengths of time. Any available funds can then be transferred to the sellers bank account. Paypal will also debit the sellers account or attempt to collect from the seller, after an investigation, if the buyer has reported non-delivery. So, even though you have the money in your bank account, it's still not 100% yours until the buyer has acknowledged receipt, left feedback or not filed a claim of non delivery within a specific length of time.

This is just another reason (example?) that I always get overly nervous when dealing online. Larry, I'm really sorry this happened to you sir. Having also dealt with you personally and knowing (generally) the type of great person you are... this stings deeply; sort of a "one of our own" feeling. I agree that a police report should be filled out, as well as contacting local pawn shops.. I think the chances are good it may show up in one of them.

Anyway.. good luck & God bless. I hope you'll receive what's rightfully yours. You'll be in my prayers!

Cheers.. :/

Scott

[MikeBmusic]

It's very likely that the perpetrator doesn't live at that address, just waited around for the delivery drop off and then grabbed it off the front stoop.

The biggest flag is why someone thousands of miles away would be looking in your area's CL ads for something. CL is divided up by city/state on purpose - its for local selling.
I've had my share of Nigerian scam contacts - 'bye-bye!' Cash only, let's meet in the police station parking lot.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by downtime

Wow, that is brutal!
It sounds like you took precautions and none of the typical red flags were there to suggest a scam. It seems these were pretty sophisticated crooks.

I'm not sure there is a 100% safe way to do an Internet transaction but right now it seems Reverb.com might be the best for sellers protections.

OP, I feel bad for you. You should make phone calls to all local pawnshops in the area you shipped to and offer a reward should they recover or if they can provide information.

That said, no the OP didn't take reasonable precautions. This scam is well documented and others have had it happen and post about it here.

All the thief needs to do is give a fake name and if the OP does not ask for signature required they can just say UPS (or whoever) just left the package and they never received it. "Someone must have grabbed it off my stoop" - yeah, right.

Another work around is to give real address but a fake name. "no one here by that name"

A business address with use of an alias also works. "We never saw it, this is a public business and anyone could have grabbed it."

I'm not trying to make the OP feel bad, but some folks don't foresee how many ways others can take advantage of you or how the system can go sideways against them.

It hasn't been too many weeks since the "3 way trade" ripoff was cited here.

Craigslist: Public place. Cash only. Friend with you. Stun gut in pocket if you are skiddish. Better safe than sorry. The more valuable the object, the more important to take care.

OP, I'm sorry that you are having to suffer a ripoff around the Holidays. At least your situation might bring more public awareness and save someone else the grief you have endured.

Bottom line: Never ship on a CL deal. Use Reverb and always ask for signature required.