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  #1  
Old 11-16-2014, 03:44 PM
FrankB2 FrankB2 is offline
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Default My Taylor 712 12 Fret has Awful Tuners... How About Waverly?

I've been a classical guitar player since 2000, and the Taylor's tuners rank up there with the worst slothead tuners I've used. They so stiff, I don't even bother tuning until things sound awful...really! I could futz around with them, but don't really feel like it's worth bothering.

Has anyone used Waverly tuners on their Taylor slotheads? Google results were mostly about Martins and Waverlys, so let me know if you've had luck on your Taylor slothead.....Please.
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Old 11-16-2014, 04:03 PM
dodge dodge is offline
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You must have got a bad set because mine work perfectly. They are not tight at all.
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Last edited by dodge; 11-16-2014 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 11-16-2014, 04:10 PM
PTC Bernie PTC Bernie is offline
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Default Waverly's

Can't go wrong with Waverly's. Taylor may not tell you if they'll be a drop in replacement, but the folks at Waverly should be able to tell you what you need to get the job done.
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Old 11-16-2014, 05:53 PM
FrankB2 FrankB2 is offline
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Thanks Guys,
The G tuner is the only on that isn't stiff, but it has to be turned forever to make any difference(???). I'll pull one of the stiff ones off, and if I can't I can't get it straightened out, I'll order some Waverlys.
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Old 11-16-2014, 06:01 PM
gdeleo gdeleo is offline
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I replaced two sets of Taylor slot head tuners with Waverly's. For me they were a direct replacement. No modifications needed to the Taylor. Only difference that I found is that the Waverly's worked! I did notice that the inside hole diameter was very tight on the Taylor tuners but not the Waverly's. Maybe that is why they seem to work better. Also the Waverly's looked soooo much better...
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Old 11-16-2014, 06:57 PM
FrankB2 FrankB2 is offline
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I just pulled the D string tuner, and it was notchy off the guitar. It also had lots of lash. I tightened the screw on the shaft, and that eliminated the lash. All, of the shaft screws were barely finger tight, so tightening them down a bit got rid of the lash. They're still not as smooth as standard Gotoh tuners on my classicals, and not even in the same galaxy as Gotoh 510's.

The Taylor tuner buttons are too small, IMO. Are the Waverly buttons any larger, or do the Waverlys work well enough that larger buttons aren't necessary? I'll be ordering the Waverlys from StewMac, and they don't provide button dimensions.

Thanks!

Edit: The Taylor plates left an impression on the side of the headstock, but I'm guessing the Waverlys will cover that. The Taylors have a 1/4" roller, so the Waverlys shouldn't be a problem. Besides, I've done 10mm to 3/8" plenty of times with classical guitars. I don't use power tools for that, but have seen the unhappy results from people who do.

Last edited by FrankB2; 11-16-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 11-16-2014, 08:33 PM
Turp Turp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankB2 View Post
Thanks Guys,
The G tuner is the only on that isn't stiff, but it has to be turned forever to make any difference(???). I'll pull one of the stiff ones off, and if I can't I can't get it straightened out, I'll order some Waverlys.
Frank,

My 2007 GC8 had some stiff tuners, mostly the G. It was horrible. It turned to be the hole was*minutely*under sized. I would have it looked at or you could switch another tuner in just to check it.

I have Waverlys on one x12 and Grover Sta tites on another.

Waverlys are a drop-in replacement. Everything lines up perfectly. FYI- Grover Sta tites 18:1 are not; the holes are a little off, but can be altered. While the Grovers do feel better than the Taylors, the Waverlys operate better than either. I am likely going to replace the Grovers for Waverlys; they are worth the expense.
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Old 11-16-2014, 09:09 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Frank, if you want to put Waverly tuners on your guitar, don't let me dissuade you. But before you go sinking the money into Waverlys, at the very least you ought to call Taylor's customer service office, tell them you have what appears to be a defective set of tuners, and get them to send you a fresh set of the factory stock tuners. It shouldn't cost you a dime, and you'll have a better basis of comparison.

All it will probably cost you is the five minutes or so it'll take to make the call. Their toll-free number is 800-943-6782.

My feeling is that you ought to try to get this corrected by Taylor before spending the money on something as pricey as Waverlys.

Just a thought....


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Old 11-16-2014, 09:43 PM
FrankB2 FrankB2 is offline
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Thanks again guys! The Taylor tuners are stamped PFG Design on the back of the plate. I never heard of them. There was plenty of lightweight oil under the plate that I removed, but I added a bit more to see if that would help.

I've never used a Taylor slothead tuners before, so I really don't know what level of performance to expect. These are the first slothead tuners I've used without an adjustment screw for the cog. My old buddy Paul Hostetter discusses the proper adjustment of this type of tuner here: http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

Without a cog screw, my only option is making tweaks on the guitar. Maybe some paraffin in the roller holes. Paul is not a fan of "precise" tuners, and I do agree that tuning down and back up with just the right amount of lash in the gears will hold a string in tune nicely. These tuners simply don't allow me to creep up to pitch smoothly, and the slightest bit of pressure causes a jump from 5 cents flat, to 20 cents sharp.

I'll call Taylor, Wade, but it might be a design issue. Dodge said his work fine, so I don't know. The strings aren't binding in the slots, and I can't think of anything else. I had a set of Gotohs on an Alvarez Masterworks MP70, and they were silky smooth in comparison. They were silky smooth without comparison as well. I love the looks of the Taylor tuners, but spent enough on the guitar that another $140-$200 won't make much difference.

Love this guitar BTW. It projects great, but has a sweet tone and resonance that some guitars this size lack (at least in this price range). It can be capoed, and loose nothing in terms of tone and volume. I've played other guitars that die with a capo past the 2nd fret, and have played some that only came to life when capoed past the third (my old Andres Dominguez Guerrero).
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:35 AM
darylcrisp darylcrisp is offline
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Frank

not saying your tuners are not as you say.

I've owned about 8 different Taylor models from 2006 thru 2012 issue dates with the slothead tuners and they've all been silky smooth turning, stay in tune, have no lash.

I've always been highly impressed with them, and I've owned around 4 guitars with the waverlys-nice too but I could tell no difference in use.

I would take Wades advice and call Taylor, typically any Taylor I've played(a lot) has very smooth/easy turning, very stable holding tuners.

good luck
d
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:19 AM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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Just a little caveat emptor because Waverlys can be stiff too, in my experience. A lot of money for something not really that special.
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Old 11-17-2014, 09:13 AM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Hi Frank. Sorry to hear about the tuner issue. I have two Taylors (314ce, BTO) and I've never had any issues with the tuners.

Like Wade said, a call to Taylor might be in order. When you call Taylor, tell them you have a discussion going on here and people have chimed in saying they've never had the issue you speak of. Let us know how it turns out.
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Old 11-17-2014, 09:20 AM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankB2 View Post
I'll call Taylor, Wade, but it might be a design issue. Dodge said his work fine, so I don't know.
I've owned two Taylor slotheads - a GC8 and a 30th Anniversary MS. There were no issues with either set of tuners. It's more likely you just got a wrong 'un.
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Old 11-17-2014, 09:37 AM
SOR SOR is offline
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The standard Pings Taylor uses are quite good, but I find the slothead Pings can sometimes vary in tension from very tight to sloppy. On a couple of slothead Taylors I've owned I did replace one or two tuners to get a more uniform tension from the sets. I do think Taylor could use a better slothead tuner design.

Waverlys can also vary in tension, and I have had to replace several for the same reason. Waverly has a tool to adjust the tension, but they don't make it available for some reason, they do promptly send out replacement tuners however.

I would probably work with Taylor to replace the problem tuners first, and consider Waverly if you are still not happy. Once you get a set of Pings working well they are fine, and Waverlys can have similar problems of their own. Good luck.
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2017, 02:20 PM
Crashcup Crashcup is offline
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Default Stock Taylor Tuners on 2013 712 ce 12 Fret

I love my 712ce 12 Fret--except for the tuners. I've read the above thread and all I can say is that the tuners on my 712 slotted peghead feel more like ukulele tuners than guitar tuners.

I contacted my dealer regarding one particularly problematic tuner, the low E. It turned nearly a quarter turn before it engaged the cog that turned the shaft to tighten the string. I had to turn it past the set point then turn it back to set it. It reminded me of how one sets a pin in a piano when tuning it and was completely unlike any of my other guitar experiences with Taylor.

I sent a video to the dealer that demonstrated the problem and they sent it to Taylor. Taylor graciously sent me a replacement tuner, which I installed immediately. Two months later--same problem.

I have ordered two sets of Waverlys, one for my 712 ce 12 fret and one for my new 812ce 12 fret DLX. I "believe" the problem may lie in the gear ratio and have read too many good reviews of Waverlys to discount them.

What's interesting is that Taylor included the Waverly tuners in their First Edition revamped 814 guitars. The production models reverted to the standard Taylor tuners. The implication (at least to me) is that since Taylor's First Editions usually have all the bells and whistles, Taylor viewed the Waverlys as an upgrade over their stock tuners.

Anyway, I'm the first person to respond to this thread in over two years, so no one may ever read it. That will not deter me, however, from posting my experience for posterity once I've received the new tuners.

Cordially,

Bill
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