Martin endpin: is it ok like this?

[Gisquared]

Hi there new user here. Could someone help me with this one?

So, I bought my first Martin a couple of months ago. By scrolling threads, I know that almost all new Martins need some work in order to make the endpin enter correctly.

I also read that some people just leave it as it is, if it's only a small portion that's left outside the endpin hole.

My question is...how much left is ok? I think in my case it should be good, I tried playing standing up for about 5 minutes (standing near a sofa...just in case ) but I'm not sure. Maybe if the endpin doesn't fully accomodate inside it may cause problems, I don't know.

Here's a picture of my situation.

[Silly Moustache]

No, don't trust it.
Martin don't care to finish the tapers on end pins or bridge pins.
All a part of their charm!

Sand it down until it is a snug fit.

[Gisquared]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

No, don't trust it.
Martin don't care to finish the tapers on end pins or bridge pins.
All a part of their charm!

Sand it down until it is a snug fit.

Thank you for answering. I'll fix it.

[JayBee1404]

I agree with SM, it needs to be fitted properly.

The problem is that the pin is tapered but the hole isn’t, it’s straight-drilled, so no amount of sanding the pin will make it fit the hole correctly. It can be sanded to sit further down in the hole, but the only contact between pin and hole will be around the ‘opening’ of the hole, so the pin will still be able to ‘wobble’ when sideways pressure bears on it.

My method is to use a 5-degree reamer to slightly widen the hole, and impart a taper matching that of the pin, so there is a deeper contact between the pin and the hole, and less likelihood that it will ‘wobble’. That produces a better result, IMHO.

[Gisquared]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

I agree with SM, it needs to be fitted properly.

The problem is that the pin is tapered but the hole isn’t, it’s straight-drilled, so no amount of sanding the pin will make it fit the hole correctly. It can be sanded to sit further down in the hole, but the only contact between pin and hole will be around the ‘opening’ of the hole, so the pin will still be able to ‘wobble’ when sideways pressure bears on it.

My method is to use a 5-degree reamer to slightly widen the hole, and impart a taper matching that of the pin, so there in a deeper contact between the pin and the hole, and less likelihood that it will ‘wobble’. That produces a better result, IMHO.

Thanks. Since I'm not in hurry, I think that maybe I will have it fixed by a luthier when the need of a setup will occur. Don't have any need of playing standing up right now, it was more a curiosity.

[phavriluk]

To OP: My opinion is to get the 'setup' done sooner. No reason to have a new instrument that wasn't optimized. Cost will be the same, and doing the work now will give OP a better-playing instrument for longer. And get the endpin hole reamed to taper (and maybe the bridge pins, too?) at the same time.

[BradHall]

I would remove the pin now regardless of when the hole gets tapered. Wouldn’t take much of a bump to split the end block.

[Gisquared]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

To OP: My opinion is to get the 'setup' done sooner. No reason to have a new instrument that wasn't optimized. Cost will be the same, and doing the work now will give OP a better-playing instrument for longer. And get the endpin hole reamed to taper (and maybe the bridge pins, too?) at the same time.

You're right, thanks for the advice. At the moment I'm pretty happy with the feeling of the instrument, but a good setup will only enhance this feeling.

Originally Posted by BradHall

I would remove the pin now regardless of when the hole gets tapered. Wouldn’t take much of a bump to split the end block.

Yeah, I did remove the endpin. It was there only for sake of clarity.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by BradHall

I would remove the pin now regardless of when the hole gets tapered. Wouldn’t take much of a bump to split the end block.

Given that that is how every modern Martin is supplied - with tapered end and bridge pins in straight holes - people are buying a "kit" that isn't ready to use as received. Many buyers seem to be unaware of that.

Most people buy automobiles from a dealership - a middle-man between the manufacturer and the buyer. The dealership receives the automobile from the manufacturer and then does work on the automobile to make it drive-ready. They ensure the oil is full, the wheels are on tight, that it is cleaned... The buyer pays the dealership for this service, often called PDI (pre-delivery inspection).

There are some manufacturers, such as Tesla, who don't use this model, and some buyers who buy from on-line sources. I'm not sure what happens when one buys from on-line sources, but I'm pretty sure if the car arrived with no oil in it when there should be -Teslas don't need oil - tires not inflated, grimy from transportation... buyers wouldn't be happy: somebody is doing that work prior to the car reaching the buyer. Generally, it isn't the manufacturer but some third-party.

That takes us to guitars. In the old model, people bought guitars, mostly, from third-party music stores. The music stores received the guitar from the manufacturer. A "good" music store would perform the "PDI" on the guitar and make sure it was ready to play as received. In modern times, with a large portion of sales happening on-line from third-party sellers, a few include "PDI" - setup, new strings, not sure what else - but most do not. Both the brick-and-mortar and on-line stores absorbed the expense of the PDI. If a full setup was not included in the selling price, the buyer is left to hire someone to do the "PDI".

Amongst the things that should be done as part of that "PDI" is to ream straight holes to match the tapers of tapered pins. It is a given. If the manufacturer doesn't do it, the third-party seller doesn't do it, the owner ought to - or hire someone to do it. It is part of the proper setup of the instrument. It's on par with ensuring your new car has oil in it and the tires are properly inflated and wheels nuts properly torqued.

It seems to me that smart guitar "dealerships" would offer to do this work as part of the sale. Doing so would help distinguish them from the rest of the on-line "dealerships". They'd either need to absorb the cost or pass it on to the consumer. If the lowest price is the distinguishing feature, people get what they pay for. Buy an unfinished kit, get an unfinished kit. Use the unfinished kit in its unfinished state at one's own peril, including having the end pin fall out and have the instrument hit the ground and have premature wear of the bridge plate, both direct consequences of tapered pins in straight holes.

There is a fairly well-known woodworking hand tool reseller who makes a few modifications to the as-received-from-the-manufacturer tools to improve the function of the tools. He charges a hefty fee to make those modifications so that buyers have one "customized by" him. Guitar resellers could do similarly, sort of along the lines of those who perform standard modifications to older Martins to make them sound better.

[lar]

I'm surprised so many people are content with a press-fit: tapered or not.

If, while standing up and playing with a strap, the pin worked its way out the result could cause significant damage, potentially even a total loss (I can imagine a big hole in the top where it fell on the corner of a table or something).

I had a 1973 Ford Capri and the fuel lines were press-fit into the carburetor. You-know-where-this-is-going! While driving down the road the fuel line slipped out, pumped fuel into the engine compartment, causing a fire (with me in it), which totaled the car. Goodbye Ford Capri.

Now you know where I'm coming from.

A multi-thousand dollar guitar with a PRESS-FIT end pin? Doesn't make sense to me.

If you're going to pay someone to make this right, why make it a more solid mechanical attachment: if not something locking (with a nut) then at least something with threads.

[phavriluk]

Blind adherence to/worship of 'tradition'.

[LeDave]

This is a stupid question. What is so bad about the silver one that comes stock on the guitar? Why do you guys like to remove it and add end pins? Just curious.

[redir]

I like to glue them in for safe measure.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by LeDave

This is a stupid question. What is so bad about the silver one that comes stock on the guitar? Why do you guys like to remove it and add end pins? Just curious.

No Dave, I’m afraid you’re wrong - it’s not a stupid question, it’s a very sensible one. FYI, Martin guitars that don’t have factory-installed electronics - certainly 15-series and above, possibly models below the 15-series too (those aren’t on my radar so I’m not certain) - don’t ‘come stock with a silver one’, they come from the factory with a traditional end-pin, either plastic, ebony, bone, or fossilised ivory depending on the model.

[LeDave]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

No Dave, I’m afraid you’re wrong - it’s not a stupid question, it’s a very sensible one. FYI, Martin guitars that don’t have factory-installed electronics - certainly 15-series and above, possibly models below the 15-series too (those aren’t on my radar so I’m not certain) - don’t ‘come stock with a silver one’, they come from the factory with a traditional end-pin, either plastic, ebony, bone, or fossilised ivory depending on the model.

Thanks! Now I don't know why they don't just include them on higher end guitar, rather they make you install one.