incredible no-brainer Mix/record software deal

[Ty Ford]

'What's with "I don't think Rupert is very concerned with Harrison consoles"?
I never implied that. Please read my post again, I thought I was clear."

I'm pretty good at treading and comprehending. You're the one who poked Rupert in there.

"I think you overlooked an even more important component. Song and performance trumps gear in almost ever case."

I overlooked something? ****, you're pretty loose with castigations. You just introduced it! You appear to be flailing.

"You don't have to use the Analog Tape saturation in Mixbuss but this Daw just sounds good scientific or not."

….for $20, who can argue.

Regards,

Ty (you usually get what you pay for) Ford

[whitecloud]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

'What's with "I don't think Rupert is very concerned with Harrison consoles"?
I never implied that. Please read my post again, I thought I was clear."

I'm pretty good at treading and comprehending. You're the one who poked Rupert in there.

"I think you overlooked an even more important component. Song and performance trumps gear in almost ever case."

I overlooked something? ****, you're pretty loose with castigations. You just introduced it! You appear to be flailing.

"You don't have to use the Analog Tape saturation in Mixbuss but this Daw just sounds good scientific or not."


….for $20, who can argue.

Regards,

Ty (you usually get what you pay for) Ford

Well I see this tit for tat is going nowhere so no further exchange is feasible.
The last comments intended for your ears is the following.
It was my good old friend that turned me on to MixBuss over a year ago and as I have previously posted. He has a Professional Recording Studio with a mic locker anyone would envy, same applies to his various preamps apogee converters and various other hardware outboard gear. His Studio has several well treated rooms and he is a very good engineer went the usual route. He graduated from Recording School in CA. apprenticed then after years of hard work create his own Studio. He uses Logic, and Pro Tools, has UAD plugs etc.
When we converse he does have a certain air about him in a snobbish way but did recommend me buying Harrison Mixbuss. I trust his judgement and advice, probably more than someone I don't know from the Interenet. The same can be said of me in that regard. I am just some Joe-blow trying to do the best I can and share my own personal experience and observations.

[Ty Ford]

WC,

I'm not sure where you expected it to go, if anywhere.

I'm happy you have friends who can help you with good suggestions.

As per your take on sharing, I agree.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[BoneDigger]

For $20 I can go to Burger King tomorrow and buy a double cheeseburger, large fries, and large drink. What goes in will be good enough. A day or so later, what comes out won't be roses, I can guarantee that much.

As soon as I get a chance I'll bring some of my mixes into this program and see how it smells when I'm done.

I'm pretty sure the end result will be worth more than the aforementioned end result.

Todd

[whitecloud]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

WC,

I'm not sure where you expected it to go, if anywhere.

I'm happy you have friends who can help you with good suggestions.

As per your take on sharing, I agree.

Regards,

Ty Ford

OK Ty perhaps I jumped the gun. I sensed you are an individual that doesn't not regard lower end gear as viable. You are correct in many cases though that you get what you pay for. However sometimes a product hard or soft can deliver more than one would expect. I personally have taken advantage when this occurs
As far as the Rupert Neve comment/reference I feel more people are more familiar with it's reputation and perhaps used it. I really wasn't informed or aware of Harrison Consoles until MixBuss first was released. I know that is my own lack of experience. So the comment was my assumption of the above. Hope you realize my intentions now.

As far as where I expected it to go, that one is on me of course and I hope the first 2 sentences of this reply gives some clarity. If we are worlds apart in experience using high end gear and Recording/mixing and producing in a Real Pro Studio exchanging with one that has might be somewhat snobbish. I didn't want to go that route. Hell my Pal I referred to is very snobbish but somehow we manage to maintain a 35 year old partnership and remain close friends I assume many here at this sub forum have Project studios with a cap on spending. Listening to experienced pro's like you has its perks. However it is frustrating to hear that one can't make decent tracks with a more modest setup.

My comment about songs and performance I feel is worth the mention. You can have the best gear money can buy, but a crappy song/performance won't sound good as the opposite. I brought up the fact that you did not mention this but did give your resume and how important expensive gear is.

[Ty Ford]

WC,

I have always tried to differentiate between cost and quality. In my reviews, the phrase, "for the money" is usually the key; telling readers that the piece may not be of great quality, but is a good value. Just don't expect too much.

The MXL MCA SP-1 is one of my favorite low cost mics. I've had a brief review of it on my blog since last March.
It performs like a $500 mic.

So much depends on the environment. A great mic can sound like C*** when used too far from the source in a nasty sounding space.

And, yes, content trumps recording quality. It is, however, fantasy to think that just because George Martin recorded Sgt. Pepper with a 4-track reel-to-reel machine that anybody with a 4-track device can get close to the same results in their club room. Reality pokes it's head into that dream and says, "Maybe in your dream, but not in my universe."

Regards,

Ty Ford

[whitecloud]

A heads up from another forum regarding the 8 buss limitation in MixBuss, this may be of interest for those trying to get the most of of it
quoted from Gearslutz from a forumite
"I was equally frustrated with the only 8 busses.....
Until I realized that if you go to "track" (on top) and "create new", one of the options is to create a stereo or mono buss. It is set up like the tracks (no tape saturation), but I learned to route tracks to it and use them as sub-busses, so now suddenly the 8 mix-busses are more than enough. I have sub-busses for multiple mic guitars, for back-up vox, fx, verbs and delays...Then all electric guitars can go to 1 of the 8 mix-busses, all of the vox....etc. Mixbus still feels clunky to me, and I am still using Reaper for the main tracking and even some mixing. But any time I (you) change DAW's, there is a time needed to adapt. It's especially difficult I think when it is not a complete migration from 1 DAW to another, and using multiple DAW's. BUT..... you can make as many busses as you need, you are only limited to 8 actual mix-busses. Hope that helps".
__________________

[whitecloud]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

WC,

I have always tried to differentiate between cost and quality. In my reviews, the phrase, "for the money" is usually the key; telling readers that the piece may not be of great quality, but is a good value. Just don't expect too much.

The MXL MCA SP-1 is one of my favorite low cost mics. I've had a brief review of it on my blog since last March.
It performs like a $500 mic.

So much depends on the environment. A great mic can sound like C*** when used too far from the source in a nasty sounding space.

And, yes, content trumps recording quality. It is, however, fantasy to think that just because George Martin recorded Sgt. Pepper with a 4-track reel-to-reel machine that anybody with a 4-track device can get close to the same results in their club room. Reality pokes it's head into that dream and says, "Maybe in your dream, but not in my universe."

Regards,

Ty Ford

Your comments and review on the MXL MCA SP-1 is ironic. I have had that mic and the Jim Williams mod bookmarked for quite sometime.. I have mentioned on other threads here about DYI on MxL mics. Granted there has to be a point when it gets out of hand and polishing a t**d however I feel one can dramatically improve some of these budget MXL's where cost isn't much of an issue or waste of time. I have one MXL 990 a friend gave me free of charged when he received his Octava Mod 990. I personally wouldn't pay the $379.00 + shipping to have someone else mod a mic(in this case the mic was included and he didn't have to send one off) With the 990 I got from him free I will replace the stock capsule RK-47($109.00) and decide what to do with the circuitry. I also have a MXL V67G bought for next to nothing that will get the RK-87 capsule. Many options with the circuity as well. May install ommi/cardoid switch. So if I go all out with both MXL's I am looking at around $350.00 for two decent and different sounding mics(this includes the free 990 and what I paid for the V67G. I still want to buy a another Decent sounding mic that needs no mods.
The modded 990 will be somewhat neutral, the modded V67g will have more presence but not harsh. So the other Stock LDC needs to be in between. Then I can pull out several different mics to try in sessions that don't seem to be cutting it and so on.

I really love your George Martin/Sgt. Peppers comments. I suppose there many far removed from reality.
For me it is trying to find a balance between playing engineer and learning all I can about solid recording and mixing and spending my money wisely(which takes so much time to research) and actually playing, practicing then writing good songs

[MikeBmusic]

Since I'm probably going to end up mastering my next album myself (only can find so many 'volunteers' to do mastering for free), wondering if this might be the 'easy' solution - get all my mixes done in Reaper (where I am familiar with all it's tools), then export 24 bit WAV stereo files to Mixxbuss for final mastering.

[whitecloud]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

Since I'm probably going to end up mastering my next album myself (only can find so many 'volunteers' to do mastering for free), wondering if this might be the 'easy' solution - get all my mixes done in Reaper (where I am familiar with all it's tools), then export 24 bit WAV stereo files to Mixxbuss for final mastering.

Well you have up to the 15'th of this month to decide if it is worth 20 bucks to find out. After that the price jumps up to $219.00. You will be able to demo 3 of the Harrison MixBuss additional plug-in suites as well when you purchase MixBuss. How you choose to use MixBuss is up to you. This guy just imported stems(not a lot) done using Reaper. He then imported them into Mixbuss but didn't do any thing other than hit play. No eq, compression or saturation was used or adjusted. Nice that he had what seemed like two machines as the back and forth comparison is immediate.. watch and listen

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Well you have up to the 15'th of this month to decide if it is worth 20 bucks to find out. After that the price jumps up to $219.00. You will be able to demo 3 of the Harrison MixBuss additional plug-in suites as well when you purchase MixBuss. How you choose to use MixBuss is up to you. This guy just imported stems(not a lot) done using Reaper. He then imported them into Mixbuss but didn't do any thing other than hit play. No eq, compression or saturation was used or adjusted. Nice that he had what seemed like two machines as the back and forth comparison is immediate.. watch and listen

I'm not sure what this demo shows? There's a bit depth limiter on the master bus of the Harrison. It looks ahead and calculates the peaks and brings up the rms of the track, in this case, 3dB. What's different about this than running an L1, L2, L3, Maxim, Massey 2007, Sony and a thousand (maybe more) bit depth plug-ins out there on the market. You've also got a gaggle of really good analog emulators that have been around for a decade. There's McDsp's Analog Channel and DIY Tape Channel and Massey's Tape Head. All of them capable of giving one a substantial boost in RMS and their analog interpretive eq curve all of which by the way, is the heart and soul of the loudness wars we usually repel here. That's a whole bunch and another world different than gaining 3dB of peak headroom which is what Harrison consoles did so well. We're dealing with a dead balls 0 dbfs wall here that can not be changed in the digital world. Anything trying to emulate analog, peak headroom is difficult game to be sure but there doesn't appear to be anything new going on here.

Granted they'll (the other plug-ins) be more than $20.00 bucks but you're not forced into running two applications for a singular end game. The compression code (whatever that may be) in the Harrison plug-in may be great but not great enough, considering the many alternatives, to run two DAW's

[BoneDigger]

Well, on the plus side of things, I downloaded my version last night and imported a track and played around with it some. I must admit, I think I am going to like the interface quite a bit and importing songs into it couldn't be easier. Lots of eq'ing options here, and I think it would be easy to get a really good sound from it.

Unfortunately, we are in the middle of a house remodel right now so I don't have a lot of time to really put it through the paces, but so far it seems to work just fine and I think it could produce some real results.

My earlier post may have been a bit crass, but my point is that you can't get much for $20 these days. I think this program will be well worth it.

Todd

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Well, on the plus side of things, I downloaded my version last night and imported a track and played around with it some. I must admit, I think I am going to like the interface quite a bit and importing songs into it couldn't be easier. Lots of eq'ing options here, and I think it would be easy to get a really good sound from it.

Todd

Well..getting a really good sound is after all the bottom line here And of course it's only $20.00. Still I'm curious as to what exactly is new here? This type of plug-in has been around for almost as long as DAW's themselves. And of course with the Harrison you have the difficult task of exporting and importing, track management, file management, added storage ect.

Seems a world easier to stick an L3 on the master channel.

[whitecloud]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I'm not sure what this demo shows? There's a bit depth limiter on the master bus of the Harrison. It looks ahead and calculates the peaks and brings up the rms of the track, in this case, 3dB. What's different about this than running an L1, L2, L3, Maxim, Massey 2007, Sony and a thousand (maybe more) bit depth plug-ins out there on the market. You've also got a gaggle of really good analog emulators that have been around for a decade. There's McDsp's Analog Channel and DIY Tape Channel and Massey's Tape Head. All of them capable of giving one a substantial boost in RMS and their analog interpretive eq curve all of which by the way, is the heart and soul of the loudness wars we usually repel here. That's a whole bunch and another world different than gaining 3dB of peak headroom which is what Harrison consoles did so well. We're dealing with a dead balls 0 dbfs wall here that can not be changed in the digital world. Anything trying to emulate analog, peak headroom is difficult game to be sure but there doesn't appear to be anything new going on here.


Granted they'll (the other plug-ins) be more than $20.00 bucks but you're not forced into running two applications for a singular end game. The compression code (whatever that may be) in the Harrison plug-in may be great but not great enough, considering the many alternatives, to run two DAW's

a couple things worth mentioning and answering your ?'s
Cost, come on all those plugs you mention would tally up to some serious coin. Plus some obstrusive copy protection. Harrison's copy protection imo is what I prefer. This vid is just one example, plenty more available if you read this entire thread. MixBuss is not a plug in, it can load VST,and AU plus they have their own.I really don't think it is much of a hassle to import stems from another DAW especially if the end game is worth it. Or you can just use it for Mastering a Stereo mix. There are UAD plugs for Harrison hardware and they cost much more than the 20 bucks, which remember expires the 15'th.
Harrison's team did a marvelous job of emulating his own consoles. The stock plug ins with the current DAW choices in many cases are sufficient. If you know how to get the best out of them. Problem is so many peeps assume that stock plugs aren't very good and spend a lot of cash on 3rd party plugs. Sure some plug-in compressors tape and saturators are awesome and worth it sometimes. I have read that some UAD users actually use less of their UAD plugs because of the MixBuss sound I can get by with a limited selective VST folder even in Cubase.
I understand that MixBuss isn't for everyone and for that reason the $219.00 seems like it is too much dough. When you get these no-brainers it is a way to get the word out about your software, with the hope these discussions will attract more customers. 20 bucks is a no-brainer in my book. I actual find the GUI easy to grasp and the routing more intuitive than Reaper. Sure there are bugs to iron out and I wish it was 64 bit, but I believe these will realized.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

MixBuss is not a plug in, it can load VST,and AU plus they have their own.

Yes of course I'm aware that in and of itself it's not a plug-in. The MixBuss however (apparently) uses a fairly common code (usually referred to generically as a bit depth maximizer) on the master buss. Indeed that (at least in part) is how one gains what has been described here as head room. Nothing new although certainly the term headroom might be used slightly out of context.

Originally Posted by whitecloud

I really don't think it is much of a hassle to import stems from another DAW especially if the end game is worth it.

Yes but indeed that's my whole point. There is a world of really great bit depth maximizers out there that would at least do something very, very similar simply sitting a master track or even individual sub-groups.. At very least could you describe what the Harrison (as a stand alone DAW) solution does that an L3 on the master output of Pro Tools wouldn't? I don't yet see it? Remember the magic in any old analog console is multifaceted but the one singular standout is the characteristic sound of what it does to peaks, not how it increases RMS. What I see here is an analog emulator that uses some coded, look-ahead compression scheme that raises the RMS. That's way old school in the world of DAW's. That's not to say it doesn't sound good, it probably does. It's just nothing even remotely new and in that doesn't seem very practical for someone dealing with multi-track project, especially big ones.