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  #1  
Old 09-22-2018, 03:25 PM
brianhejh brianhejh is offline
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Default String spacing

Is there a formula/relationship between the string spacing at the nut VS spacing at the saddle.
I believe Stew Mac makes a string spacing ruler to work this out. Is there a formula that is commonly used.

Thanks

Brian
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2018, 03:36 PM
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Nope, personal preference - I've seen 1 3/4 nut (approx 1 1/2 spacing) with 2 3/8 saddle spacing, and 1 7/8 nuts (about 1 5/8 spacing) with 2 3/16 saddles.

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Old 09-22-2018, 03:38 PM
Osage Osage is offline
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The way I do it is measure the width at the nut then measure the width at the 12th fret. Lets say it's 44mm at the nut and 53mm at the 12th fret, the width at the bridge should then be 62mm. Of course you then have to subtract the amount that the strings are in from the sides of the neck at the nut. I typically do 2mm on the Low E and 3mm on the high e. So I'll take that 62mm and subtract 5mm which leaves me with 57mm or just a hair under 2 1/4". I'll use this same formula for any width neck.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:03 PM
Shuksan Shuksan is offline
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The string spacing at the nut and at the saddle are unrelated to each other. Each one can be whatever you want (within reason) when building a guitar. The combination chosen will affect the width of the fretboard though.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:28 PM
brianhejh brianhejh is offline
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Thanks for the formula Osage.

I tried that formula on two guitars and yes they were as per your specs 44/ 53/ 62 however on this particular guitar in question (12) FRET I have the following formula.

1ST FRET 44MM 12 FRET 53MM ALL GOOD SO FAR HOWEVER AT THE SADDLE THE CURRENT OUTSIDE STRING SPACING IS 57MM. (5MM) NARROWER)

If I look down the neck from the nut end I do see the strings angled toward the centre of the saddle understandable if by the formula used the strings spacing at the saddle on this guitar is 5mm too narrow.

Can I assume that the bridge string slots were originally cut incorrectly? and is there a fix or do I need to start with a new bridge.

Thanks

Brian
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:09 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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I like this question very much.
Let us ask it in a slightly different way....As I now assume from this discussion, that saddle spacing is directly related to the width of the neck at the 12th fret.
If the saddle spacing is related to the Fret width at the 12fret...then what is the reasoning for different widths at the 12 fret? As it is totally up to the builder, and independent of nut width..
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:32 PM
Shuksan Shuksan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
I like this question very much.
Let us ask it in a slightly different way....As I now assume from this discussion, that saddle spacing is directly related to the width of the neck at the 12th fret.
If the saddle spacing is related to the Fret width at the 12fret...then what is the reasoning for different widths at the 12 fret? As it is totally up to the builder, and independent of nut width..
From a builder's perspective, that's backwards. The width of the neck at the 12th fret (or 14th fret) is determined by the combination of nut width and string spacing at the saddle, not the reverse. If you draw the neck layout to scale on a big sheet of paper and draw lines from the low and high E nut slots to the positions of the low and high E strings at the saddle, that automatically gives you the string spacing at the 12th fret. You then add width (~1/8" on each side depending on the builder and player preference) to the fretboard so that the outside strings are set back from the fretboard edges. That determines the width of the fretboard at that point. This is how it's done in the Cumpiano book that many builders have used a reference for building methods.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:47 PM
mercy mercy is offline
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Usually the nut slots of E and e are cut 1/8" from the edge of the fretboard and usually the bridge pins are 2 1/8, 2 1/4 or 2 5/16". 2 1/8 usually goes with a 1 11/16 nut width. The other two are preferences by the builder/player. Most common 2 1/4 would be chosen if the nut is 1 3/4. The distance from the string to the edge of the fingerboard usually gradually gets wider as you go up to the body join. I have mine made different than this based on what I find works best for me. That being said it shows that these numbers are variable but there are numbers that are more common than others.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:10 PM
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Not too much of this makes any sense. There is no formula. Nuts go from 1 5/8” on 60’s Gibson’s to classical’s that are over 2”. The saddle spacing is completely independent. Most range from 2 1/8” to 2 3/8”. Most big companies change by 1/16” on nuts and 1/16” on saddles. Luthier’s will make custom guitars to one’s exact specs within 1/64”. The string spacing on the nut is not standard either but as some have stated most 1 3/4” nut guitars have a 1 1/2” between the two E strings. The width of the neck at the body joint is made in accordance to the width of the saddle spacing to keep the bass and treble strings close to the edges. The neck on a standard dreadnaught like a D-28 (1 11/16” x 2 1/8”) is skinnier than one made to 1937 specs that was 1 3/4” x 2 5/16. There are players that are very particular and then there are guys like Clapton that go from the strat to the classical, to a vintage Martin to his signature Martin without missing a beat. Jackson Brown too changes guitars almost every song with different nut widths and string spacing.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:21 PM
brianhejh brianhejh is offline
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Thanks for the feedback, I now get it.

To one point in my earlier comments.

If I want to widen the the current saddle spacing/string slots by 1/8 of an inch, is there a standard / quick fix?

Brian
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:50 PM
Shuksan Shuksan is offline
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One rule of thumb is that the width of the fretboard at the 12th fret should be the same (+ or - 1/32" or so) as the overall string spacing at the saddle. Up above, you said that the string spacing at the saddle now is 57 mm. How wide is your fretboard at the 12th fret? If it is also 57 mm (or very close to that), then you don't have much room to widen the the string spacing at the saddle without possibly putting the outside strings too close to the edge of the fretboard along the upper frets. If it's wider than 57 mm, then you may be able to make a new slotted saddle or have one made with the wider spacing you want.

You might want to take a look at this previous thread: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...slotted+saddle
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:31 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osage View Post
The way I do it is measure the width at the nut then measure the width at the 12th fret. Lets say it's 44mm at the nut and 53mm at the 12th fret, the width at the bridge should then be 62mm. Of course you then have to subtract the amount that the strings are in from the sides of the neck at the nut. I typically do 2mm on the Low E and 3mm on the high e. So I'll take that 62mm and subtract 5mm which leaves me with 57mm or just a hair under 2 1/4". I'll use this same formula for any width neck.
Why would you let the width at the 12th fret determine the string spacing at the saddle? Why not let the preferred nut width and preferred string spacing determine the width at the 12th fret? I've had 5 custom instruments built over the years by 4 builders. I was asked my preference for nut width and string spacing. No builder ever asked me about a preference for width at the 12th fret.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:34 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhejh View Post
If I want to widen the the current saddle spacing/string slots by 1/8 of an inch, is there a standard / quick fix?
Whether you can or cannot do that without causing issues is going to come down to how much room you have between the strings and the edges of the fret board.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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  #14  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:37 AM
Osage Osage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Why would you let the width at the 12th fret determine the string spacing at the saddle? Why not let the preferred nut width and preferred string spacing determine the width at the 12th fret? I've had 5 custom instruments built over the years by 4 builders. I was asked my preference for nut width and string spacing. No builder ever asked me about a preference for width at the 12th fret.


The OP is asking about a guitar that is already built, not a new custom build. Unless he want's to reshape the neck, which can be done, then the ratio from the nut to the 12th fret more or less determines the spacing at the bridge.
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  #15  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:00 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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On an existing built guitar, the edge distance from the e strings to the side of the neck is maintained the full length of the neck.

Example if the distance between the e string at the nut and edge of guitar neck is 3/32, then the same relationship should occur at the 12th, to achieve this we slot the saddle and locate the outer strings, The inner strings are typically located on an expanding scale.

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