Schertler Versus Waverly Tuners on High End Builds

[SprintBob]

Just sharing this because I had my first experience with Schertler tuners on my new Edwinson Zephyr 00 that Steve Sheriff built. My gold standard for tuners in terms of smoothness and accuracy have always been Gotoh 510's. My Froggy Bottom, Collings, and the two Santa Cruz's I recently had (but sold) all have Waverly's. For slothead tuners, the Schertlers on the Zephyr so far are WAY better in terms of smoothness and accuracy. The quality of construction seems similar so perhaps it's the simple difference between 18:1 tuners (Schertler) versus 16:1 (Waverly).

I've got a new Froggy Bottom H-12 scheduled for build starting in February and I'm going to see if they will use the Scherlter tuners rather than their standard Waverly's.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I stopped using Waverly in favor of Schaller Grandtune years ago, unless the customer has a preference. But when the vintage aesthetic is off the table, I find the Schertler to be superior to both. I have never used the heavy and melted looking 510 although people like it, it looks wrong to me.

[nacluth]

Schertlers are the top factory tuner in my opinion. Waverlys and unfortunately Schallers recently have had inconsistencies that I have never found in Schertlers.

[justonwo]

I love Waverly tuners and have them on many of my guitars. The look and feel just right to me. Schertlers are fine, but I personally don't like the look at all. I had Schaller Grandtune on one of my guitars a while back and found them no better than Waverly (in fact, they weren't as smooth).

I know Waves have been maligned as inconsistent by some builders, but I'm very happy with the ones I own. Perhaps I'm benefiting from those builders having weeded out the bad actors?

[mhw48]

On my Franklin Jumbo build, Nick and I have gone back and forth over which tuners to use. Nick has been using Waverlys for a while, but says that far too often there's a dud in the batch. That said, Waverly always promptly replaces the bad tuner with a new one, but it's been happening a bit too often. Nick was intrigued by Schertlers, but I confess I don't really like the look -- at least on a more traditional design, like the Franklin. We decided to test out Schaller Grandtunes, but Nick wasn't fond of them, he also found them less smooth than the Waverlys, so he returned the Schallers and we are back to Waverlys.

[dc.]

I have a BTO Taylor GS with a slotted headstock. I didn't like the crappy stock tuners that it came with (the ones found on Taylor 12 frets), and there were no alternative offerings from Taylor at the time, so I ordered a set of Waverly tuners from StewMac. I chose them because they were drop-in replacements and look great, and overall these were a big improvement.

However, for some reason the Waverly tuners don't have splined shafts, and one of the buttons began to spin on the shaft not long after installing it. StewMac, with typical class-act customer service, sent me a new set free of charge. Unfortunately, the buttons weren't nearly as nice looking on the guitar as the first set, and being the fuss-arse that I am, I sent them back. I ended up using thin CA (cyanoacrylate) glue on the problematic button, and now years later I have yet to have an issue.

I can't imagine why Waverly doesn't spline the shafts on their tuners, but that aside these are very nice both mechanically and cosmetically.

[gr81dorn]

I got a great deal on some all black Schertlers with intention of dropping them in on a Taylor for a nice upgrade, but never did it. I'm building an electric guitar right now and tossed em on there. They look great and I'm excited to actually use them. They seem really nice thus far, though their footprint is ridiculous and I think a big reason they aren't too popular. They basically have to be used on a brand new build or you have with Taylors or others without a mounting screw or else you're going to have to deal with a very different screw pattern and the 2-step ream which is just a nuisance compared to most others.

If you're starting from scratch, as I was, perfection!

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by mhw48

Nick has been using Waverlys for a while, but says that far too often there's a dud in the batch.

I had heard the same thing, and while Waverlys (if working correctly) are fine, I decided to go with Rodgers. Custom engraved, as well. You can certainly get a set that looks similar to Waverlys, and be assured of having top-notch quality tuners.

Of course, the downside is that the tuners themselves will cost as much as a decent guitar....

[Bruce Sexauer]

I identified the problem with Waverlys years ago and was not taken seriously by StewMac, which queered the deal for me. They told me I was the only one who ever mentioned this being the problem.

The problem is that the ferules are machined too loosely on the shafts. This means that if one used their bespoke tool fo installation, the tuner shaft and the ferule are perfectly concentric. But because the ferule has several thousandth " of play against the shaft, the string tension pulls the shaft forward which caused the driven get to bind against the worm gear. So, when there is no tension on the string, everything seems fine, but as the string comes to tension the gear becomes increasingly tight, often to the point of being completely bound up. It's not so bad with the butter bean knobs, but with the smaller wood knobs there can be inadequate leverage for my fragile musician's hands.

Schaller's machining is to much closer tolerances, and with a bit of attention the issue rarely comes up, although if not considered it is possible to install them improperly and get the same affect.

Because of the bearing built into the base plate, Schertler will probably never have this problem.

[invguy921]

I too love Schertlers. Top drawer tuners at reasonable prices. I'm yet to find ANY guitar that has Waverlies that has a consistent set.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I identified the problem with Waverlys years ago and was not taken seriously by StewMac, which queered the deal for me. They told me I was the only one who ever mentioned this being the problem.

The problem is that the ferules are machined too loosely on the shafts. This means that if one used their bespoke tool fo installation, the tuner shaft and the ferule are perfectly concentric. But because the ferule has several thousandth " of play against the shaft, the string tension pulls the shaft forward which caused the driven get to bind against the worm gear. So, when there is no tension on the string, everything seems fine, but as the string comes to tension the gear becomes increasingly tight, often to the point of being completely bound up. It's not so bad with the butter bean knobs, but with the smaller wood knobs there can be inadequate leverage for my fragile musician's hands.

Schaller's machining is to much closer tolerances, and with a bit of attention the issue rarely comes up, although if not considered it is possible to install them improperly and get the same affect.

Because of the bearing built into the base plate, Schertler will probably never have this problem.

Bruce, you described the symptoms I have experienced with Waverly’s very accurately.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Bruce, you described the symptoms I have experienced with Waverly’s very accurately.

I have no doubt at all re my diagnosis. Few thing in life are so clear!

[Guitars44me]

I have found the Gotoh 510 Mini tuners pretty lightweight and VERY SMOOTH.

And, you can put full size buttons on them if you use the longer screws! Of course the resin or wood buttons save a LOT of weight.

I have had John Kinnard use them on my 3 most recent builds, and I like them a lot.

Back pre Covid, when I had gigs where I could only use one axe, I would often retune from dropped standard to Open D or reverse, mid performance to play slide. Nothing I have used is as comfy as the 510s.

I found Waverlys really difficult!

Thank God the electronic tuner has been invented!! Hahahaha

Cheers

Paul

[theEdwinson]

Hey, Bob, I'm glad the Schertler tuners are working well for you on your new Zephyr 00. I'm with you-- the Gotoh 510 (mini) is my standard tuner for solid headstocks, and my Omega open headstock. I've used at least a hundred sets of them, and never once encountered a single tuner with slop in the action. Every single one has been perfect. I haven't used that many sets of the Schertlers, but the same holds true-- every one of them so far has had super precise action. And they look great- sort of a cross between vintage and modern.

Sorry to say, that is emphatically NOT my experience with Waverly tuners. I have used maybe a dozen sets, at customers' request, everything from the plain Nickel ones to the three-on-a-plate, engraved, fancy-schmancy $450 ones. And usually, at least five out of the six in a set have an unacceptable amount of slop. Like, 1/4 turn before the gear engages the worm. That's pathetic. I don't know why anyone accepts this. Considering the high cost of the Waverlys, I think they are a poor value. I agree with Bruce on this. The Waverly's are expensive junk, IMHO.

If you REALLY like that vintage open gear style of the Waverlys, do yourself a favor, and use some Schaller Grand Tunes, or Grover Sta-Tites, or the Gotoh version. ALL of them are better than the Waverlys, and the Grovers and Gotohs cost about half as much as the equivalent Waverlys.

[Jeff Mc]

[QUOTE=theEdwinson;6555419]Hey, Bob, I'm glad the Schertler tuners are working well for you on your new Zephyr 00. I'm with you-- the Gotoh 510 (mini) is my standard tuner for solid headstocks, and my Omega open headstock. I've used at least a hundred sets of them, and never once encountered a single tuner with slop in the action. Every single one has been perfect. I haven't used that many sets of the Schertlers, but the same holds true-- every one of them so far has had super precise action. And they look great- sort of a cross between vintage and modern.

I guess I don't pay that much attention to the tuners, but my purchase last year had Gotoh 510s. I had to make almost a full turn of the G string tuner before it would engage. I sent the company an email. They said they couldn't help but referred a US distributor to contact. He couldn't/wouldn't do anything either. No one has one treble side tuner laying around and the company wouldn't do anything. The only solution that they offered was for me to buy a full set of tuners. Some customer service!