Technique- taking lessons new guitar teacher

[Jimd826]

Hoping to get some input as I've just started taking guitar lessons for the first time in almost 40 years. I took lessons when I was 10 to 15 years old, stopped playing guitar for 35 years, picked up guitar again a few years ago and have been watching Youtube, Justin guitars, Marty and others to regain some knowledge. I finally hit a point where I wasn't improving and just playing what I know, so I decided to go to a teacher to go to the next level. I'm a strummer with some picking thrown in, not a classical guitarist, nor do I want to be at this point, just want to improve. I had my first instruction with him last week and he says he's a technique "nerd" and he'd prefer me to hold the guitar on left knee with classical style left hand, thumb behind the neck(I wrap my whole hand around neck with thumb peeking over the top). I'm finding it's tough to change what I've been doing, I believe I can learn a lot from him but am looking to get some input to opinions if it's worth taking on this classical technique. Thanks for any commments. Jim

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by Jimd826

Hoping to get some input as I've just started taking guitar lessons for the first time in almost 40 years. I took lessons when I was 10 to 15 years old, stopped playing guitar for 35 years, picked up guitar again a few years ago and have been watching Youtube, Justin guitars, Marty and others to regain some knowledge. I finally hit a point where I wasn't improving and just playing what I know, so I decided to go to a teacher to go to the next level. I'm a strummer with some picking thrown in, not a classical guitarist, nor do I want to be at this point, just want to improve. I had my first instruction with him last week and he says he's a technique "nerd" and he'd prefer me to hold the guitar on left knee with classical style left hand, thumb behind the neck(I wrap my whole hand around neck with thumb peeking over the top). I'm finding it's tough to change what I've been doing, I believe I can learn a lot from him but am looking to get some input to opinions if it's worth taking on this classical technique. Thanks for any commments. Jim

IMO, I think he may be a fine teacher for someone who wants to play with his "preferred" style, but if he couldn't be flexible enough to let me use my preferred style, I'd look elsewhere for a teacher...

As always, YMMV...

[Jimd826]

Thanks Denny, i was thinking along the same lines, appreciate the comment

[Gordon Currie]

On one hand, I'm a BIG believer in resting the guitar on the left knee (with a footrest) because it is so ERGONOMIC. That and positioning the left thumb behind the neck to preserve finger arch and keep the wrist flexible. I had no formal training, but I decided at 16 or so to try and learn from people who had dedicated their lives and careers to getting it right. So glad I did because I have a number of good habits now - that I would NOT have otherwise.

On the other hand, it is difficult to get behind a teacher when you don't fully understand how following them into the wilderness is going to get you to your destination. And teachers are human as well, and have their blind spots and obsessions, and you can waste a lot of time on something they think is important, only to see no progress in your playing.

I'm guessing your age is right around 60? Something to think about is repetitive strain injuries. Classical playing techniques minimize the risk of these.

As stated in similar threads, the better you know your own goals, the easier it is to decide whether using this teacher is a PITA but helpful in the long run, vs. just a PITA.

[Ct20]

Why not try it for 3 more lessons. Maybe he knows more than you do. Change isn't easy, but you're taking lessons to progress, not just feel comfortable doing what apparently isn't work that great.
Good luck with what ever you decide
BUT... can he play music you like and would like to play? If not, find someone else. I found my teacher by hearing him play at several venues. And he was a problem solver of a teacher.

[Jimd826]

Thanks Gordon and Ct20, thats exactly why he teaches the thumb behind, he broke both wrists when young and he said that this technique is more ergonomic and easier on the wrists. I'm just having difficulty because its not what im used to. I know he has the knowledge to get me to the next level and is a good player, he can play rock, jazz, blues, classical, just about anything, its just adjusting from my side that is the problem, can i adapt or am I wasting his and my time. As you say Ct20, im there to learn not be comfortable, i am going to meet with him more to see how it goes, hopefully this old dog can learn some new tricks. Really appreciate the comments.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Jimd826

Hoping to get some input as I've just started taking guitar lessons for the first time in almost 40 years. I took lessons when I was 10 to 15 years old, stopped playing guitar for 35 years, picked up guitar again a few years ago and have been watching Youtube, Justin guitars, Marty and others to regain some knowledge. I finally hit a point where I wasn't improving and just playing what I know, so I decided to go to a teacher to go to the next level. I'm a strummer with some picking thrown in, not a classical guitarist, nor do I want to be at this point, just want to improve. I had my first instruction with him last week and he says he's a technique "nerd" and he'd prefer me to hold the guitar on left knee with classical style left hand, thumb behind the neck(I wrap my whole hand around neck with thumb peeking over the top). I'm finding it's tough to change what I've been doing, I believe I can learn a lot from him but am looking to get some input to opinions if it's worth taking on this classical technique. Thanks for any commments. Jim

HI Jim

I taught for 40 years, and there were things I'd go to the mat with students over, and left knee, right knee, wear a strap was not one of them. There are ways to adjust guitar positions without totally rewiring a student. If students asked for help with posture, we explored their options, but I didn't initiate it unless what they were doing was abhorrent (very rare).

I taught a lot of well-entrenched players who were intermediate level players (or even more advanced) who just wanted to learn a particular technique.

I didn't mess with their chord shapes, neck angle or hand positions unless I saw it inhibiting them from getting to where they wanted to go. And even then we focused on things which would help, not what I'd do if I were them.

It's your money, and your style. I think it's fine to tell your teacher learning a new posture is not where you are headed, and ask him/her to help you improve your technique without radically overhauling your positioning.

You could offer to stand for lessons if you need to (though I'm pretty sure the teacher would find that awkward). That would solve the 'which-knee' issue (kidding).

Worst case you thank them for their time and look for a different teacher.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Jimd826

Hoping to get some input as I've just started taking guitar lessons for the first time in almost 40 years. I took lessons when I was 10 to 15 years old, stopped playing guitar for 35 years, picked up guitar again a few years ago and have been watching Youtube, Justin guitars, Marty and others to regain some knowledge. I finally hit a point where I wasn't improving and just playing what I know, so I decided to go to a teacher to go to the next level. I'm a strummer with some picking thrown in, not a classical guitarist, nor do I want to be at this point, just want to improve. I had my first instruction with him last week and he says he's a technique "nerd" and he'd prefer me to hold the guitar on left knee with classical style left hand, thumb behind the neck(I wrap my whole hand around neck with thumb peeking over the top). I'm finding it's tough to change what I've been doing, I believe I can learn a lot from him but am looking to get some input to opinions if it's worth taking on this classical technique. Thanks for any commments. Jim

Jim,

I wouldn't continue with this teacher, although he may be very good.
The problem is that for what he teaches, its the best route to go for someone maybe 40 years younger, but not for you.

You may find that someone who can enhance the style you are playing with their experience in that style will be a better match for you; one who can teach you to listen to yourself when you play and how and what to practice to improve.

Lessons aren't really to teach you how to play, they a method of showing you what to practice. You have to be able to listen to what you are doing and you are actually really teaching yourself how to play. You can have the best teacher in the world, but if you don't practice correctly and build dexterity, timing and the use of emphasis in your strumming, all the songs will sound almost exactly the same.

Good luck. Don't settle for less.

[Jimd826]

Thanks for the comments Larry and TB, yes, at almost 60, i just want to play better, not perform at symphony hall. To be fair to him, I didn’t say anything at the time as i figured he knows a lot more than me, but after thinking about it and hearing what you have said, I truly don’t want to overhaul my technique, as bad as he thinks it might be. I want to train my ear, improve my timing, learn how about to spice up a song and not be embarrassed when playing with others. You all have been very helpful in guiding me with your responses. Im seeing him tonight and will have the conversation and see what he says, if he cant teach me without the technique change, then I’ll thank him and move on. Again, thank you so much for the comments, i posted the question to gain some group guidance and got exactly what I was looking for, much appreciated. Jim

[jwing]

Most learning involves a bit of discomfort before the benefits are accrued. I would not be quick to dismiss a teacher because he believes that technique is important. Try it for awhile, you may learn some valuable lessons.

OTOH, I do not believe that the having the guitar on a raised left knee is the best way to play. For me, that posture, with its tilting, twisting, hunching, and imbalance was injurious to my body. OTOOH: I did give it a genuine attempt for several weeks. And even though I gave it up, I did learn that raising the guitar neck is advantageous to both hands. I figured out a way to affect that guitar orientation - with a peghead-tied strap, even when I'm sitting. Bonus: the guitar hangs exactly the same when standing as it does when I sit. I would not have figured any that out had I not genuinely attempted to play in the classical posture.

[beninma]

What would he do if you wanted to stand?

It seems there are left knee people who complain about back problems from the twisted posture that position encourages.

There is no free lunch on any of the postures except perhaps standing.

I had a LOT of trouble with posture and asked my teacher for tons of advice but it was always advice within the different ways of sitting, not him dogmatically saying I need to switch to one or the other.

These days I stand most of the time anyway to practice.

[s0cks]

My opinion would be to stick with it. I decided to take the classical posture route and I'm absolutely grateful I did.

The thing is Jim, you don't have to play with classical posture & technique all the time, but if you learn to play with it, it will actually help you with whatever posture you use when jamming. That's because it is so ergonomic, which will allow you to learn to relax, which will help you target the correct muscles when playing, and thus will drastically improve your finger independence and playing ability.

If he truly is a nerd for technique you should see some pretty amazing results within a fairly short time period (assuming he is able to convey the concepts to you for proper practice).

[Jimd826]

Thanks Jwing, Beninma and sOcks, i went last night, he mentioned without my even trying that my hand position was better although I wasnt trying, I guess the practicing of the hand position had taken hold to some extent. He’s teaching me the notes and chords all the way up the neck which is something i want to learn, so right now I’m learning and moving forward. Rome wasnt built in a day, so we’ll see where it goes. Thanks for the comments, Jim

[Kerbie]

Jim, congratulations on diving back into guitar. I think it's great. We can all hit plateaus and a teacher is an excellent way to kickstart learning. It's just a matter of finding the right one. I think you'll get more out of lessons if you're specific with him about what you want and don't want. If he's a good teacher, he should be able to adapt to all his students. I'd probably stick with him as long as you're learning.

The Asheville area has a wonderful music scene, so you should have no trouble finding your next good teacher. You may also want to check out the Swannanoa Gathering. Guitar Week in July is one of the best musical experiences I've ever had. You'll learn a ton and have a ball at the same time.

Wishing you the best of luck... keep at it!

[Jimd826]

Thanks Kerbie, yes, Asheville does have a great music scene and I've heard great things about Swannanoa, Toby Walker(an instructor there) told me that it's great for all levels, so actually am thinking of going next July. After all the great comments, I'm defining more of what I want out of the lessons, it's tough to know what you don't know and how to get to where you want to be without knowing the best path, but as someone mentioned in another post, having goals is a good place to start. I'm now forcing myself to think of what I truly want out of these lessons and have to be able to communicate that to teacher. Thanks for comments