What IS great amplified tone???

[Br1ck]

There are two ways I'd go with what I know at this time. Please note I'm not going for the Holy Grail of tone, just something that is usable and sounds good with as little fuss as possible. The ToneDexter intrigues me. If I had guitars with various pickups in them, I'd give it a hard look.

But when I was getting started with all this pickup stuff, a friend told me about Teddy Randazzo and I live close to him. I got a set put in a guitar, bought a RedEye and never looked back. Plug it in and sound good. Then I got another, and another, and another. I didn't see the point in trying anything else. Everyone likes the tone I get. I did switch to SunnAudio, witch I can't recommend enough. I co host an open mic and was sick of listening to harsh guitars, the whole gamut of cheapies and even great guitars with K&Ks. They were kind enough to custom build me a pre with two inputs for the open mic and it was instant improvement with anything we put through it.

Check out Doug Young's video on his setup for Holy Grail tone and duplicate it if that is what you want. I'm happy with Dazzo's in everything. I record with a bit of Dazzo into my mic'd sound.

[Br1ck]

There are two ways I'd go with what I know at this time. Please note I'm not going for the Holy Grail of tone, just something that is usable and sounds good with as little fuss as possible. The ToneDexter intrigues me. If I had guitars with various pickups in them, I'd give it a hard look.

But when I was getting started with all this pickup stuff, a friend told me about Teddy Randazzo and I live close to him. I got a set put in a guitar, bought a RedEye and never looked back. Plug it in and sound good. Then I got another, and another, and another. I didn't see the point in trying anything else. Everyone likes the tone I get. I did switch to SunnAudio, witch I can't recommend enough. I co host an open mic and was sick of listening to harsh guitars, the whole gamut of cheapies and even great guitars with K&Ks. SunnAudio were kind enough to custom build me a pre with two inputs for the open mic and it was instant improvement with anything we put through it.

Check out Doug Young's video on his setup for Holy Grail tone and duplicate it if that is what you want. I'm happy with Dazzos in everything. I record with a bit of Dazzo into my mic'd sound.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

There are two ways I'd go with what I know at this time. Please note I'm not going for the Holy Grail of tone, just something that is usable and sounds good with as little fuss as possible. The ToneDexter intrigues me. If I had guitars with various pickups in them, I'd give it a hard look.

But when I was getting started with all this pickup stuff, a friend told me about Teddy Randazzo and I live close to him. I got a set put in a guitar, bought a RedEye and never looked back. Plug it in and sound good. Then I got another, and another, and another. I didn't see the point in trying anything else. Everyone likes the tone I get. I did switch to SunnAudio, witch I can't recommend enough. I co host an open mic and was sick of listening to harsh guitars, the whole gamut of cheapies and even great guitars with K&Ks. They were kind enough to custom build me a pre with two inputs for the open mic and it was instant improvement with anything we put through it.

Check out Doug Young's video on his setup for Holy Grail tone and duplicate it if that is what you want. I'm happy with Dazzo's in everything. I record with a bit of Dazzo into my mic'd sound.

I wish Teddy lived by me! That's my biggest issue with Dazzo pickups, I am just not confident enough to glue in a pickup that potentially won't sound amazing after the install. I have found that most glowing reviews of this pickup come from people who actually met with Teddy. Not all, but quite a few.

I love Doug's website but be careful with that. Some of those pickups sound incredible but then don't end up working out in a live setting. What I try to do is find artists who I feel have good tone and then watch live concert videos and find out what they use. It's that real life experience that helps.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by willymartin

Solo.. As close to mic'd as possible

With band...I agree, some grit but no quack. I've actually never once considered an acoustasonic...but after listening to the new Billy Strings/Molly Tuttle vids then comparing their sound to their live acoustic tones....I think I'm saving up..still thinking tho..no quack, grit, cuts through a folk rock/alt country band...supposedly less fuss. (Lil off topic...but...2 different tones for 2 different purposes for me)

Agreed.

Tone is so subjective. I play lead in a folk pop band. I try to achieve a tone specific to
The song at hand. When necessary the helix
Stomp is used to "electrify" my taylor with
A bit of overdrive and eq I can impart a tele
Or strat like tone. Or add different fx.
So tone is many things to me.
When solo I am more of an alt country,
Classic rock, bluegrassish sort of set and
My tone is more acoustic sounding.
So it's all dependant on what I'm playing.
The Sunrise pickup/helix allows me all of this. But none of it's perfect to my ear.
I have a friend who is a phenomenal
Flatpicker...think Doc Watson. For years
He used a mic. Now hes had an anthem
Installed and when I go to hear his band
His d18 sounds like a resonator guitar.
Really terrible to my ear..but he likes it.
So go figure..

[Methos1979]

This is an excellent question that made me take a few days to consider and answer. And my answer surprised me a bit. I want that 'larger than life' tone when amplified. I want the acoustic guitar tone to be 'exaggerated'. Why? Because when playing out to a busy venue I want the guitar tone to really shine and cut through the wall of sound of people talking and the busy sounds of live play. As someone that alternates between playing with a pick and playing with my fingertips with no nails, this is very challenging, especially when I'm plugging into someone else's gear that I don't have control over like at an open mic.

This point has really been driven home to me with the recent virtual open mics that I run bi-weekly. As of late we have just been playing live totally acoustically into our ETL Edwina mic. The guitar sounds great when strummed with a pick but when I switch to fingerstyle the tone is muted and a bit muddy on the all-mahogany 12 fret Martin D-1 Custom dread. So I can't say that I want 'true mic'd guitar tone' for live play. In order to get that tone to sound great amplified I need to be able to manipulate the EQ and boost the volume. That means either programming different scenes in my digital mixer or having a guitar with onboard (barndoor) preamp and EQ controls.

Back when we were actually playing out live we had boiled down our gear to the simplest, smallest, lightest, battery-powered gear which for us was the Bose S1 and EAE StompMix X6 mixer. For me, getting that larger-than-life tone meant going with a guitar that has a built from the ground up multisource pickup system that takes each tone band (bass, mids, treble) and manipulates them separately with internal crossovers and the melds the tone into a great over-the-top live tone with the ability to manipulate live with onboard controls. Guitars like Maton, Takamine or in my case, Cole Clark.

Because I'm unwilling to spend the money and the time to purchase and program excellent gear like the Tonedexter and the many other outstanding bits of kit that require wall-wart power, I have gone this simplified route. It works for me. Easy to carry and super-fast setup and breakdown times. I can also plug the Cole Clarks into anyone's open mic gear and get a great sound. Going from strumming to fingerstyle is now just a matter of dialing up the treble, back off the bass and boost the gain and BOOM - instant great fingerstyle tone, no more muddiness.

Of course Aaron knows about this as do many of you since I post it often. But I since he asked I thought I'd detail it out for those coming along that are new! For the Martin, I ended up going with a K&K Double Helix Solo magnetic soundhole pickup which has a tone switch that allows me to boost the volume and key frequencies to make the fingerstyle sound a little better amplified. It will do in a pinch when I want to take out the high end Martin (not that we go out anymore these days) but when I really want/need great live tone then it's the Cole Clarks.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

... As someone that alternates between playing with a pick and playing with my fingertips with no nails, this is very challenging.

Age-old problem, and the reason why people use fingerpicks. The time you spend in the woodshed learning to do this will be worth it. :-)

[JackB1]

I never think about "my guitar only louder". I just know what type of sound sounds good to me and inspires me to play live. There's nothing worse than playing live and not personally liking what you're hearing from your guitar.
So for me, when I play solo gigs, I prefer a tone than is full and lush, without being woofy or boomy and with good balance between the highs and lows without quacky or too honky mids. I also HATE overly bright or tinny sound that's too trebley or harsh.

[SpruceTop]

I want an amplified natural acoustic guitar tone, my guitar only louder, but also I like the whole shebang from pickup to mixer to speakers to enable me to sound bigger and more in-your face than natural if desired.

[jseth]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Can you please post a soundcloud comparison between a mic in front of the Guitar and the Dazzo pickup Recorded straight into an audio-interface with no EQ and no Reverb?

I believe There is very few comparison like that on the net. The only one I can remember is Toni Lingren, and the Dazzo Take sounds like a pickup while the mic take sounds like a Martin. I would say the same from Doug Young’s demo.

You know, when I was spending time with Teddy recently, we talked about a lot of things regarding the Dazzos and the old FRAP I used to use, back in the 70's. Teddy said that these are not really "for recording", that I probably wouldn't be satisfied with the sound captured in that medium...

Although the Dazzos are much more "mic-like" and three-dimensional than any other SBT or UST system I've played with, they are not really meant to function as a direct recording system.

Since then, I've noticed a few folks here say that they've used the Dazzos along with a great mic sound and gotten good results, or at least what they wanted.

Yep, Teddy said the Dazzo is going sound like a pickup through that sort of recording process...

Of course, for me, as a player and performer, I don't care if it "records' like a mic, I care if it's workable, sounds really good and I can plug in and play without a lot other fiddling and tweaking, night after night.

Were I to do a "serious" recording project, I can't imagine using anything but good microphones for the acoustic guitars... except for possibly having a "dry" feed that I could throw an effect on, if needed...

[Cuki79]

I understand the Dazzo sounds like a pickup... but such recordings comparison enable to get how much of the guitar is conveyed by the pickup.

[hotroad]

I like my guitar sound to be as if my listening ears were inside the body of my guitar in the sweet spot, probably right under the bridge. But that sound would depend on the guitar. Therefore I only play high end guitars that can produce crazy good tone. By 'good tone' I mean full, clear, deep, rich, and very close to studio sound if not exactly that. It can be accomplished with my head still on my shoulders by using high end condensor mics blended with a good sound hole pickup BUT then this has to be eq'd according to the ideas above. EQ can ruin any tone no matter how good the gear is.
This tone will fill you up like a wonderful meal where you taste every flavor fully.

[BluesKing777]

Maton EBG808 with Maton AP5-pro pickup!

Sublime plugged! Bare fingers. In Ear monitors. Internal mic on full.

Under lockdown here and can't even leave our suburb, so I could play on a sandhill but that is about it. But....

If we were going tonight to play at the club, I would take the Maton EBG808 and a Fishman Pro EQ DI. A lot of Maton owners plug direct to the PA and sound good but with a bit of fat trimmed by the Fishman, it can be great!

The Maton system is really loud. For comparison - if for example, I plugged the Maton EBG808 in to my Boss VE8, I have to have the volume on about 9 o'clock on the dial....K&K Trinity at 12 midnight on the dial and the Anthems at 3 am on the dial! I think the loudness of the Maton system is key. Loud, full and solid plus a nice internal mic and all controls on board, including sweepable mids.

I have a house full of guitars and have attempted to get them up for live play with a shed full of pickups and .....stuff. My latest is getting the K&K Trinity in guitars with the neck I want and love. I am getting a great sound but need 4 black boxes to lug around - would probably do it at a residency, maybe, maybe not!

Nope, just take the Maton EBG808 and DI. Keep my nails trimmed for the slimmer than preferred neck....

The weapon! This guitar is a custom finish one off, so if the crowd could be a bit..err...rough, out comes my other Maton SRS808




BluesKing777.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

This guitar is a custom finish one off, so if the crowd could be a bit..err...rough, out comes my other Maton SRS808

Wow. In my musical community, with only a couple exceptions, nobody's good guitars ever leave the house.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I love Doug's website but be careful with that. Some of those pickups sound incredible but then don't end up working out in a live setting.

I think Br1ck's talking about the setup(s) I currently use, not all the random pickup tests. It works great for me live, for what I do - note: I'm not playing in a loud rock band, I play in settings mostly intended for listening (well, I did, pre-Covid....).

[lkingston]

My Doyle Dykes signature model Godin Multiac sounds just wonderful live over a PA or acoustic amp. When I started recording videos at home because of Covid, I started using that because I loved it so much live. Recording is such a different thing though. In that context, my Martin miked sounds way better.

I think a good live guitar has an interaction with amplification in a large room that is a completely different set of parameters than an acoustic guitar where you are listening to the sound of the guitar directly.

Live, I like something with a decent pickup and a mic blend. It may not sound like much recorded, but over a PA in a big room full of people...I really love that sound.