For recording instrumental guitar - large or small condenser

[TBman]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Barry,

Alex DeGrassi is probably my all time favorite fingerstyle player. And as he & I talked about me making a Koa guitar for him over the years, & got to meet a few times, I discovered him to be a great guy: very articulate, generous, educated & very knowledgable about all kinds of music, guitars & theory. He demystifyed uncommon open tunings for me - much appreciated - & IMO is as great an original guitar player & guy that there is.

But the way he layers his music - without changing tempo? That's incredible! It can help any finger stylist improve his/her expression. And his musical melodies are memorable.

Here are a few hard-to-source, classic Alex pieces from his first two Windham Hill albums for you, Barry. The mic's used on most of these early recorded pieces were the AKG EB 352 w/ CK1 cardioid caps.:

Turning, Turning Back -Live-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqqm...eature=related
Swordfish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAEzzoNeYMU
Luther's Lullaby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rcrsicbmts
Blood & Jasmine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdRPJaf6b5o
Window
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0DMX26-KOg
Children's Dance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRx7p4fD4MM
Waltz & March of the Rhinoceri
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_C1L5yd4pw
Alpine Medley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVXPQsWYoCs
Autumn Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFkCAxeXhQ
Turning Back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC41Mkqkwk0
Causeway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcA4rmKTBQw
Slow Circle 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFa61cCxGOA
Slow Circle Live & Slower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVa76gSp63o
Slow Circle Fast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6gD0sqVyBw
Sleeping Lady
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYbZaHBL2BA
The Deep - fr New Album The Bridge!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKQ-FHq8tFA

Alex has been great forever. He is one guitarist who has never stopped growing in skill or trying new approaches to music. But also incredible & "instrumental" in the sound of Alex's early recordings were early Windham Hill engineers Cookie Marenco, Tom Easton & Stephen Miller. They pioneered new, close-miking techniques for the acoustic guitar & achieved a truly fresh, innovative & original acoustic sound in the late 70's/early 80's. They also used the best vinyl.

Enjoy!
alohachris

PS: Hey Doug, have you recorded any of Alex's music?

Thanks Chris! I'm going to take a good look at his work.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by TBman

Thanks Doug. I'm using Reaper, but it must have something like that. Otherwise I'll find a free plug-in,

I'm going to experiment and try upping my input gain too.

Here's a free one (Haven't used this one)

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/

There are likely many. Maybe Reaper has one built in, I wouldn't be surprised

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

PS: Hey Doug, have you recorded any of Alex's music?

No, I've listened to Alex forever, and studied with him a bit, dabbled with some of his tunes in the past. But I don't generally record other people's music. I was thrilled when Alex gave a nice press quote for my last CD (with Teja Gerken).

[Gordon Currie]

Alex is THE guy that kicked off my own instrumental acoustic guitar journey.

In 1977, Will Ackerman was making some waves with a new label and sound.
I enjoyed the sound, created with unconventional tunings, yet for me there was a lack of technical and harmonic sophistication.

Will came to Seattle to play in our Bumbershoot arts festival. He played before a large and appreciate audience.
At one point, Will said he was out of songs to play, but if we didn't mind, he'd like to bring out his cousin to play a few tunes.

Alex DeGrassi shyly walked out on stage and proceeded to blow minds for the next five tunes.
I had been listening to Bert Jansch, John Renbourn, Stefan Grossman, Leo Kottke, but was not prepared for the orchestral approach of Alex.
It was unlike anything that was being done anywhere - and would be repeated a few years later with Michael Hedges.

I got the chance to correspond with Will Ackerman a few years ago, and I thanked him profusely for running out of songs that day.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Here's a free one (Haven't used this one)

https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/

There are likely many. Maybe Reaper has one built in, I wouldn't be surprised

Thanks Doug. I found the built in db meter in Reaper too I bumped up the volume on my cover of Cairn Water.

So now I'll study LU and LUFS and see what that's about.

[rick-slo]

Interesting the types of tunes different people like.

As far as large versus small diameter mikes in the far past I have tried a LD on the neck side and a SD on the body side in the
theory that there might be less tendency of treble sizzle making itself into the recording but that was in an non acoustically treated
room. Seems to be less of an issue now.

Many of my favorite sounding guitar recordings used a pickup plus microphones. Doubt I will get around to recording that way though.

[alohachris]

Aloha Derek,

Yeah, it IS amazing the variety of different guitar recording preferences among us AGF guitarist/recordist types, huh?

Here's one song of yours that I've long been particularly fond of:

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Rebecca.wav

And here are two others of yours that serve as excellent & ultra-clear, home-recorded acoustic sound to strive for - without any adornments like reverb or plug-in's, etc.. Just the basics - with some great playing!

Good players here like Barry, Peter Wright-y & K&G should PM you to find out how you get such clarity in your recordings, Derek, without the mid-range issues that plague so many. (You'd probably tell them, "Uh, Room Treatment!"). Really well-played & recorded songs, my friend - preferences of mine for sure.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu...eBlanchard.wav

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu...nBlanchard.mp3

Kickin' back on a cool, rainy, Aloha Sunday morn. Givin' props to braddah rick-slo!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

PS: I also think that SoundCloud recordings diminish any recording. Too compressed & "stepped on." Direct wav. recordings like yours here, Doug's & sdelsolray's sound so different to my ears than those mp3., youtube type's. -alohachris-

[rick-slo]

Thanks Chris.
Most of my recordings that I share these days I have put onto youtube. I do think youtube reduces sound quality some compared to the wav recordings I have posted but usually only a little.

For example "Rebecca" wav file you linked to above:
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Rebecca.wav

and the same recording moved to youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YsX...el=DerekCoombs

Adjust to equalize volume if necessary.

[alohachris]

Aloha Derek,

I'm glad you posted the comparison clips. Because right in the first two stanza's I can hear & feel the small differences between the two formats so clearly.

The wav. file has such clarity in the upper register, the notes decaying naturally & the space around the notes is "relaxed" & natural for lack of a better word. It actually moves me the way a guitar does.

The youtube recording of the same piece affects me differently, there is less clarity overall & a weird, barely noticeable "mushiness" to the decay of the notes - it kind of moves around. And the notes & overall sound seems more "digital" to me with less depth of imaging. I know my ears are getting old but I can hear it clear as a bell.

I also know that youtube is the way to get the music out there & that younger audiences don't know the difference...or care. So what the heck, right?

Listen to those two once again, Derek & tell me I'm imagining these differences.
Just for fun. And to listen to that great music once again, Ha!

alohachris

[The Doc...]

alohachris is -to me - the acoustic warrior...knows his stuff backwards and forwards. I am so grateful for all of his help, guidance and recommendations in saving me from acoustic guitar sounding like sh**. Such an AGF treasure...I am out...

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Derek,

I'm glad you posted the comparison clips. Because right in the first two stanza's I can hear & feel the small differences between the two formats so clearly.

The wav. file has such clarity in the upper register, the notes decaying naturally & the space around the notes is "relaxed" & natural for lack of a better word. It actually moves me the way a guitar does.
alohachris

Yes I agree.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

...the differences are smaller between the class of mic than between specific mics, and totally dwarfed by mic placement, room acoustics, and guitar.

True that!

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

…LDC has a flatter response and typically doesn't have as sparkly an upper end. That's great when you got a bright guitar that needs to be rounded off or when the concept is for a rounder sound. It does typically pick up more room effects.

The SDC typically has a sparkly upper end and a tighter lower midrange. When I see a dread with a big flabby bottom end come in the door and the artist or producer is wanting a bright, chirpy sound, I reach for an SDC. Most times when I'm recording the acoustic guitar as a rhythm instrument in an ensemble I'll reach for the SDC. It requires less EQ to fit in the band.

Well said boss. Explains why I probably lean more towards large diaphragms or a combination, since I’m playing a small guitar..

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Alex is THE guy that kicked off my own instrumental acoustic guitar journey.

Oh man, me too! A friend's mother randomly gave me the first two albums on a cassette tape when I was in high school. I used to listen to it at night in bed with headphones, completely re-wired my brain. Meeting him the first time was one of the only times I’ve met a famous musician and was nervous. I'm sure I embarrassed my self, or more likely both of us, as I tried to explain how his music affected my life course..

Fun fact; a few years back and mutual acoustic guitarist friend had Alex as the officiant at his wedding and me as the guitarist, on the central California coast one weekend. I had the best time hanging with Alex and his wife… At the end of the night acoustic debauchery ensued in a hotel room jam with martinis and us jamming All Along The Watch Towner on ukuleles..

[alohachris]

Aloha Eric,

A Great Alex story, my friend. Man, a Jimi jam on a Martin-i ukulele. I've seen that with Jake Shimabukuro at parties here, Pakalolo-style. But I'd imagine they're not as common along the Central coast with such esteemed guitarists as you & Alex in tow, huh?

I also have some Alex stories. But one stands out.

In '82, both in our 30's, Alex & I met on his first trip the Islands when I went to his soundcheck to get some opinions about my custom Koa guitars. He was very cool about it & we hit it off, me enjoying inspecting his new Somogyi cutaway dreadnaught w/ Sunrise/AKG 414 dual-source system, & he scoping a coupla Koa guitars I brought that were more similar to what he plays now (like SJ Concert's).

We went to his early Saturday afternoon show at a really beautiful outdoor Island venue. I was blown away by Alex's playing & music, everyone was, including all the great local guitar player's I'd invited to check him out. He & I kept talking after the show (he's so interesting) & our then-wives hit it off too. So it was decided we would meet them on the Big Island where his next gigs were. Off we went.

We attended Alex's Volcano House solo gig, & again, were blown away, & the two couples kept talkin' & talkin' at the lodge after the show in front of the massive fireplace. Well, this strange little guy kinda inserted himself into the conversations & later invited us back to his rented house out in the lava fields for brandy & desert on a misty Winter's night in cold Volcano. We rolled with it. And he was good on his word about the quality of the night's offerings. We all enjoyed his company although he kept asking inappropriately for Alex to play, post-concert. Wha?

It turned out that this guy was visiting this very isolated area so that he could work creatively in solitude on a very special, one-of-a-kind project for the famous horror author Stephen King: to write & hand-draw illustrations for a limited edition, hand-bound book of erotic stories that would be distributed to a small, exclusive list of King's famous friend's (Oh, the excessive lifestyles of the rich & famous, huh?!?).

We all laughed & thought he was kidding at first, but he started bringing out explicit drawings & hand-written, Old English style manuscipts for everyone to peruse. I'm sure we all wondered where it was going but everything was cool. So we spent the last part of the night a little Brandy buzzed, reviewing & discussing this talented man's work, listening to him recite a few erotic stories, wondering how we ever got there...

In the wee hours, we finally said A Hui Hou & left to our respectively lodgings after that. But the next time Alex & I spoke, he asked," Remember that strange talented little guy up in Volcano?" And we just cracked up.

You never know....

alohachris