Your approach to tuning a nylon string...

[815C]

OK, I finally have a decent nylon string guitar (a 1994 Dauphin). I really haven't played much on a nylon string in the last 3 decades and I'm finding tuning it a bit trickier than my steel string guitars.

The tuning approach I use is to tune the A string to pitch using a tuner, then...

match the A string 7th fret harmonic to the open E string

match the A string 7th fret harmonic to the B string 5th fret

match the A string 12th fret harmonic to the G string 2nd fret and

match the A string 5th fret harmonic to the D string 7th fret harmonic

match the A string 7th fret harmonic to the E string 5th fret harmonic

Then go back and...

match the G string 12th fret harmonic to the high E string 3rd fret

match the D string 12th fret harmonic to the B string 3rd fret

match the D string 7th fret harmonic to the B string 10th fret

match the A string 7th fret harmonic to the G string 9th fret

match the A string 7th fret to the low E string 12th fret

etc...

Thoughts? Tips?

Thx!

David

[Dave T]

My over simplification is to use an electronic tuner. (smile)

Dave

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by 815C

match the A string 7th fret harmonic to the open E string...

You can stop right there.

There are two conditions of getting an instrument to play in tune. The first is related to temperament - what are the desired pitches of the notes - and the second is related to intonation - how consistently close that particular instrument is capable of achieving the desired pitches.

Temperament
Harmonics belong to Pythagorean tuning - they are whole-number divisions of the vibrating string. Frets are placed according to Equal Temperament, a mathematical constant that is a multiple of the 12th root of 2, an non-repeating decimal that is not a whole number.

The ONLY places where the pitches of the two different systems of temperament are the same is the unison and the octave. No other notes will be the same.

Comparing the pitch of a note of one system - say the 7th fret harmonic - that is not an octave or unison, to a note belonging to a different system is like comparing apples to oranges.

The only harmonics that you can use for tuning purposes are the unison and octave(s) of a string. Those can be compared to the pitches of open strings or fretted notes.

Intonation
If the instrument's setup is not sufficient to ensure that the notes consistently get "close enough" to the desired pitches, you will "chase your tail" attempting to get the instrument to play in tune. If the intonation is not well setup, how closely the notes conform to the desired pitches will change depending upon where they are played.


Thus, getting an instrument to play well in tune involves, first, having the instrument setup well enough that the pitches produced are consistently close to the desired pitches. Second, it involves using a self-consistent method of tuning the pitches of the strings - don't use harmonics other than octaves or unisons of the open strings. Then, since Equal Temperament is not what the ear wants to hear, you might want to tweak - or "sweeten" the tuning for particular keys or pieces.

[815C]

Thanks Charles! That is the kind of input I was hoping to hear!

This morning I spend about 5 minutes tuning, then tweaked it a bit, and finally got something I was happy with. Hopefully I will speed up the tuning process on this guitar with more practice.

[Red_Label]

When I have to tune the guitar to itself, I use the method in the OP.

But as Dave T alluded to... the vast majority of the time I just clip on my Snark to the headstock and get the tuning done quickly.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Here is the method I use which works well:

- Tune the A to pitch
- Fret the A string at the 2nd, and use the 14th fret artificial harmonic to match the B string.
- Fret the A string at the 7th, and use the 19th fret artificial harmonic to match the high E string.
- Use the natural harmonic at the 12th fret of the A string, and match to the 2nd fret note of the 3rd string.
- Use the natural harmonic at the 12th fret of the A string, and match to the 7th fret note of the 4th string.
- Use the natural harmonic at the 12th fret of the low E string, and match to the 7th fret note of the A string.

Might not be perfect, but it works!

[rick-slo]

Varies somewhat but:

Usually low E to pitch and high E to match.
Fifth fret harmonic to seventh fret harmonic for lower four strings
Fourth fret on G string to open B string, fifth fret on B string to high open E string
Recheck pitch on the low E string and adjust if needed
Recycle the above.
Eliminate beats if any.
Test intonation with various chords and adjust from open string
results if necessary (usually some middle ground)
Different tunes (e.g. in different keys) may benefit from individual
tuning adjustments.

[Ned Milburn]

I go open low E, open high e, open b...

Then you can get an octave with the D (4th) string to 2nd string fretted d.

E - A - open and check the 5th too (ie fretted B).

G-string - check against fretted low G and high g, and also against open A fretted a

I'll also check 4ths with the 4 lowest strings.

You need to take different compromises sometimes with different tunings - ie: drop D tuning in key of D, versus standard tuning key of E, versus standard tuning key of C, etc...

The better the intonation is, the less differentiation will be needed between keys.

You'll get a pretty good idea what is in and what is out, and you can tell differences between guitars. Classical guitars with poor intonation can drive a person crazy trying to tune.

[mc1]

Tuning – the Guild of American Luthiers Data Sheet #45

PROCEDURE:

Tuning the 1st and 6th strings: The E, open 1st string, must be in pure unison with the harmonic of the E, 6th string at the fifth fret. When these two strings have been properly tuned with each other, continue as follows. Tuning the 4th string: Play a harmonic on the (in tune) 6th string at twelve, and as this harmonic sounds, adjust the 4th string until the tone E on the second fret is in pure unison. Now you have the E, open 1st string, 1st on the 4th string at two, and E, open 6th string tuned pure (permissible because they are octaves).

Tuning the 2nd string: Play a harmonic on the (in tune) 4th string at twelve. As this sounds, adjust the 2nd string until D at the third fret is in pure unison. As you have used two fretted tones for references and as the frets are positioned for tempered intervals, you now have the open 1st, 2nd ,4th and 6th strings in tempered tuning.

Tuning the 3rd string: As it is easier to adjust a string while listening to a continuous reference tone, you may first try the following: Play a harmonic on the (in tune) 4th string at twelve and as this sounds, adjust the 3rd string until D at the 7th fret is in pure unison.

Double check: Now make this check to see if you have been accurate or if the instrument plays tune when fretted at seven. Play a harmonic on the (now tuned) G string at twelve, and as this tone sounds, play G on the 1st string at three. The two tones should be in pure unison. If they are not, either you are at fault or the instrument doesn’t fret tune at seven. Go back to the beginning and carefully check each step up to this point. If the tones are still faulty, then readjust the 3rd string until the harmonic at twelve is in unison with the 1st at three. Do not tamper with the 1st and 4th strings because it is the 3rd string you are trying to bring in tune. When you have the 1st, 6th, 4th, 2nd and 3rd strings in tune, in that order, continue with the remaining 5th string.

Tuning the 5th string: Play the tone A on the (in tune) 3rd string, at the second fret. Listen to this pitch carefully and now adjust the 5th string until the harmonic at twelve is in pure unison. When the foregoing steps are followed correctly, the strings will be tuned perfectly to equal temperament. No further tuning adjustments are permissible.

http://drkevguitar.com/2012/04/04/tuning-data-sheet-45/
(there is other useful information on that page)

[MC5C]

This is kind of interesting and shows why tuning with the fifth and seventh fret harmonics doesn't work well. http://www.schrof.net/guitar/articles/harmonics.html

[lpa53]

Being a stickler for tuning, Ive tried a bazillion tuning methods and quite a number of tuners. After all that, I've found guitarist and luthier Mike Doolin's two chord method to be about the simplest there is that also produces a great result.

Mike's technical articles on guitar intonation and tuning can be found here, and after several pages of highly complex theory, he gets to his simple tuning method on page 5.

Essentially you first tune any way you like to get your guitar in the ballpark - the standard 5th fret way, an electronic tuner or whatever - and then you tweak that by ear using two chords, A5 and E5, XX2255 and 0X2245X, plucking one string at a time.

Works great for me and it's a heck of a lot simpler that trying to remember some of the wilder, all-over-the-neck, methods. Give it a shot.

[ZippyChip]

Don't make it so complicated. Get an electronic clip on tuner and learn how to either accept or temper the readings. This is how I tune but I also have a Peterson Virtual Strobe tuner that will accept and remember user settings with "Cents" acuracy. Sometimes things change string set to next but it is not a big issue. Don't beat yourself up trying to do it with the fret system. Life is to short. My opinion.

[riffmeister]

I tune by ear using a combination of harmonics (5ths and unisons) and fretted intervals (octaves, 5ths, and major triads). The harmonics get me close and then I fine tune with fretted notes. The whole tuning thing is a compromise to get an acceptably pleasing sound.

[hesson11]

I think it was Leo Kotke who said that electronic tuners offer more of an opinion than a solution. I agree, and I've tried a bunch, including the Peterson and TC Electronic strobe jobbies. They get you almost there, and sometimes that's good enough!

=Bob

[Bobbio84]

I usually start off with an electronic tuner and some harmonics, but then quickly I switch to a few chords, listening for the octaves and fifths. When I hear a problem I play octaves at different spots on that string and in relation to different spots on other strings.

I think that tuning is always tricky since each instrument has different tuning issues. Right now I'm playing a new Yamaha SLG and the fret board is amazing. I have not found any consistent flaws yet. My Alhamabra's 'a', however, is off at the tenth fret 'b' string almost always, so I have to compromise it's tuning, especially when playing a piece in 'a' that goes up there. I will flatten the 'b' ever so slightly to compensate. It bugs me, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Tune how you need to tune the guitar is ultimately the best advice on tuning. It's a personal method. YOU have to be satisfied with how it sounds.