Bose L1 Compact + S1 Pro Live Setup Example

[Chriscom]

Thought I'd share how a local group positioned their L1 Compact and S1 Pro this weekend. There was zero feedback and as you can see from one of the photos, I was darn near 180 degrees off the side and the dispersion was quite good. The guitarist and vocalist were routed to the Compact with a T1 Tonematch. The electric fiddle player was on the S1, connected via a wireless setup (I didn't have time to inspect which brand). Mostly good sound. The vocals and fiddle sounded great. I thought the guitar was a little harsh, and I'm sure you could get a warmer tone with all the settings in the T1--but I also was wondering if it was asking a touch too much for this outdoor environment (and I have a Compact and love it). Hard to describe the area being covered--think of the bar with the windows as a railroad flat and you're seeing just one-third of it, but just off left and closer there's a stand-alone 12X14 enclosure used as a mini-lounge--a full story high. P.S. They were good!

[varmonter]

I used a similar setup with
A group I played with last summer.
They had a jbl small tower system
with only 2 inputs. When his wife would
sing with us i would bring my
Eae d68. And run my mandolin
through it. Sounded pretty good.

[Chriscom]

My impression is that darn near anything would sound good through that EAE.

[jseth]

Nice clean set-up there... sounds like you're pushing that little Compact pretty hard with three players, but I'm glad it sounded good...

Interesting comment about the dispersion, too, as the Compacts don't really produce that effect to much degree, not when compared to either the Soloist or the L1 Model II. Those little L1C's seem perfect for one guy and a guitar, one load, easy carry... I'd have been tempted to get one, just for small gigs, but I don't have many gigs at all these days!

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by jseth

Nice clean set-up there... sounds like you're pushing that little Compact pretty hard with three players, but I'm glad it sounded good...

Interesting comment about the dispersion, too, as the Compacts don't really produce that effect to much degree, not when compared to either the Soloist or the L1 Model II. Those little L1C's seem perfect for one guy and a guitar, one load, easy carry... I'd have been tempted to get one, just for small gigs, but I don't have many gigs at all these days!

Well yes, it's no L1 M2!

However, Bose's specs claim 180 degree dispersion for the Compact as well and--while that's asking a lot of the mere 6 speakers in the stick--I can report the dispersion was quite good almost completely off-axis.

Also to clarify: Only two folks were piped through the Compact--the fiddler was on the S1.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

My impression is that darn near anything would sound good through that EAE.

EAE makes good stuff..

Originally Posted by Chriscom

Well yes, it's no L1 M2!

However, Bose's specs claim 180 degree dispersion for the Compact as well and--while that's asking a lot of the mere 6 speakers in the stick--I can report the dispersion was quite good almost completely off-axis.

Also to clarify: Only two folks were piped through the Compact--the fiddler was on the S1.

This is the way I did it with this band last
Summer. His guitar and vocal and her vocal
Through a jbl tower system and my mando
Through the eae.
He had a gizmo on the floor to blend his
Vocal and guitar with one out to the jbl.
Some old school harmonizer dohicky..

[Goat Mick]

That is a good clean setup for a trio like that. I like to use one of my Fishman Loudboxes as a direct into my Bose L1c so I can take advantage of the EQ and effects on the amp. With a little ingenuity these can be very versatile systems providing good clean sound.

[Chriscom]

This is the way I did it with this band last
Summer. His guitar and vocal and her vocal
Through a jbl tower system and my mando
Through the eae.
He had a gizmo on the floor to blend his
Vocal and guitar with one out to the jbl.
Some old school harmonizer dohicky..

Yes, I've done exactly that with a Boss VE-8 for my voice and guitar into the Compact, very handy.

[capefisherman]

I would love to know how you accomplished this with no feedback issues. I have two Bose S1's and good quality mics (Shure Beta 87A, Ear Trumpet Edwina, Blue en-Core 300) and my Martins are equipped with K&K's through a Red Eye pre amp and even with my S1's directly beside me about 6' away feedback is always lurking if I use any degree of volume - and I play mostly small venues where volume is not needed. I have to set them up at least a foot in front of the mic (6 feet away) and slightly angled out to avoid it. Behind me? I wish!!

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by capefisherman

I would love to know how you accomplished this with no feedback issues. I have two Bose S1's and good quality mics (Shure Beta 87A, Ear Trumpet Edwina, Blue en-Core 300) and my Martins are equipped with K&K's through a Red Eye pre amp and even with my S1's directly beside me about 6' away feedback is always lurking if I use any degree of volume - and I play mostly small venues where volume is not needed. I have to set them up at least a foot in front of the mic (6 feet away) and slightly angled out to avoid it. Behind me? I wish!!

It's probably the type of mics you are using. I can get a lot of volume out of mine. I position them about 3 feet to my side and about a foot behind the microphone. I'm using a Shure Beta 57.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by capefisherman

I would love to know how you accomplished this with no feedback issues. I have two Bose S1's and good quality mics (Shure Beta 87A, Ear Trumpet Edwina, Blue en-Core 300) and my Martins are equipped with K&K's through a Red Eye pre amp and even with my S1's directly beside me about 6' away feedback is always lurking if I use any degree of volume - and I play mostly small venues where volume is not needed. I have to set them up at least a foot in front of the mic (6 feet away) and slightly angled out to avoid it. Behind me? I wish!!

I was impressed by this as well. A couple things though:

You can't easily tell from these angles, but the central guy doing guitar and vocal is not directly in front of the Compact--and you'll notice he's eating the mic. He was on it the whole time I was watching, and obviously in this position 1. His head is blocking direct sound and 2. This mic/mouth proximity means the mic volume can be lower, additionally reducing feedback chances.

The guy at his right was also offset a bit but I can't say how much, or how close he was to the mic.

The fiddler has a mic in front of him but he was only playing while I was observing and I expect it was turned off--I assume it was for occasional vocals, in which case he, too, could have been right on top of it. His S1 also is well over his head--helps?

The guitarist was telling me how much he loved the Compact in part because of the feedback resistance. But I can think of small, interior venues where it'd be more vulnerable to feedback than outside like these guys, like my living room where I've practiced with it

As for mics, guitar guy's looked like an SM58 to me.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by capefisherman

I would love to know how you accomplished this with no feedback issues. I have two Bose S1's and good quality mics (Shure Beta 87A, Ear Trumpet Edwina, Blue en-Core 300) and my Martins are equipped with K&K's through a Red Eye pre amp and even with my S1's directly beside me about 6' away feedback is always lurking if I use any degree of volume - and I play mostly small venues where volume is not needed. I have to set them up at least a foot in front of the mic (6 feet away) and slightly angled out to avoid it. Behind me? I wish!!

A further note on S1 feedback--AGF'er Methos1979 has shared his extensive experience with the unit, so I'll excerpt one of his longer comments below and link to where I found it. FWIW he and his partner often play with their S1s fairly high on a pole.

You will need to have some sort of external EQ system to dial out the lows a bit more. I'm assuming you dialed the lows all the way down when you ran into the feedback issue when turning up.

I have used the S1 in just about every possible way, every position, every type of venue, with and without external preamp and EQ. I remember only once when I was first testing the S1 outside that I ran into what you ran into as I was playing it really loud with the volume dialed up past half, more like 3/4 or higher. I found I had to dial back the lows (bass) ALL the way out to tame the feedback. But that was also with signal preamped so it was already hotter.

For me, if I'm playing through a preamp or mixer, I also find that the S1 sounds best with the ToneMatch switches set to off. If I'm going straight in then I find the ToneMatch is best set to vocals for both vocals and guitar. We were practicing outside yesterday with the S1 in it's simplest form, just my guitar (Emerald X10 with active pickup, onboard volume and tone control) and my wife's mic. We had both ToneMatch switches set to mic/vocal and we were able to dial up to 3/4 and got a great, relatively loud sound with no distortion.

One thing you don't mention is what position you were using the Bose S1 in when you encountered the feedback. Pole, flat, or tilt back? I have found that the tilt back position is the most prone to low-end feedback but I usually only notice that indoors on hardwood floors. Try different positioning as well. Move yourself or the S1 to a different area. I'm always surprised when practicing inside at loud volumes just how sensitive feedback is to position. Just a step in a certain direction can increase or decrease feedback, so try that.

We recently just went to a second Bose S1 which we used as both a monitor or a second FOH depending on the situation. We had a QSC k8.2 as backup for when we needed more power but in the end we never used it and decided that a second S1 would be a much better addition and it indeed is. I primarily used an Emerald X10 with a Ghost bridge pickup systems these days and this is very less sensitive to feedback than my other Emeralds with K&K's but I wouldn't think a B-Band which is a UST would be sensitive either. Try decreasing your onboard volume when you increase the S1 and dial out the bass lows to nothing on the S1. Even with it dialed all the way out you'll still hear plenty of lows when the volume is cranked.

A small preamp or mixer would be very helpful. I typically go one of three ways. With my X10 we use an EAE StompMix X6 digital mixer for 'full gigs' where we have two mics and my guitar and I need full EQ, notch, compression and effects control in a relatively small and battery operated package. For smaller gigs lately I just go with the X10 and one mic straight into the S1 but I always carry with me the tiny and yet extremely powerful and useful Headway EDM-1 preamp. Runs on battery and has full EQ and a sweepable high pass filter that they call an anti-feedback switch which dials out those troublesome lows. It works extremely well an both the EDM-1 and the X6 are serious pieces of quality high-end kit

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=549664

[capefisherman]

I do dial out the bass completely for guitar and just a touch (maybe 1/4 setting, if that) for the vocals, and has been said, still have all the bass end I need or want. As a side note here - and this is based on owning AER, Schertler, Henrikson and other high end acoustic amps - I don't understand why amp manufacturers seem to equate lots of bass with "good" sound; Bose seems to fall into that category too. In my experience, clean, clear crisp treble (but not raspy ala Fishman) is a real plus because treble cuts through, meaning less of a need to boost volume in a room filled with sound-absorbing bodies.

I do agree with the above that putting the S1 on the ground increases the feedback tendencies in the bass end a LOT. I use metal stools that are about 3 1/2" high for mine. I also observed in the video that the singer was "eating" the mic, which would indicate very low gain. Probably good for feedback issues but not so good for overall fidelity.

I will try setting the guitar to "vocals/mic" for the Tonematch and see if that helps with the guitar feedback.

[leew3]

I use my S1 on a mini stand and set it up about 5 feet up and 4-5' behind me to my left between Rokdog and myself when we play out. My vocals are through a Sennheiser e935 and my guitars are either one of the Taylors with the ES1 system or a K & K equipped CEO 7. I run my K & K equipped mandolin through the Aux channel also with no problems with feedback.

The guitar channel volume is at 12 o'clock and vocals around 1. As others have noted, with the bass dialed back a bit on the guitar channel I don't have any problem with feedback. My guitar stands are to my right so away from directly in front of the S1.

When I've set the S1 higher so it's in line with the mic there has been some feedback but not if the speaker is set off axis enough.

I hope this helps as I love this speaker and now use it way more than my LB Artist.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by capefisherman

I would love to know how you accomplished this with no feedback issues. I have two Bose S1's and good quality mics (Shure Beta 87A, Ear Trumpet Edwina, Blue en-Core 300) and my Martins are equipped with K&K's through a Red Eye pre amp and even with my S1's directly beside me about 6' away feedback is always lurking if I use any degree of volume - and I play mostly small venues where volume is not needed. I have to set them up at least a foot in front of the mic (6 feet away) and slightly angled out to avoid it. Behind me? I wish!!

If your mics are too sensitive then you'll get the high pitched squeal type feedback on the S1 with too much gain. We recently added an ETL Edwina for our Live FB and ZOOM open mics direct to computer and it's great but when I tried to use it with the S1 - forget it! Even outside I could not get a decent gain level without feedback.

If you're getting the low end rumble feedback from your guitar's K&K's that's not surprising. Try using a soundhole cover. I used the K&K for years and always had that issue. Now that I've gone over to the Cole Clarks that's a non-issue for me. On my Martin dread I went over to the K&K Double Helix Solo magnetic soundhole pickup. Best sounding mag s/h pup I've played with the natural resistance to feedback that type of pickup system is known for.

Since you use two S1's and don't need loud volume due to the smaller size venues you play you can always just place single S1 out in front of you and the second one on the floor in front in the monitor position. You can really dial up that out front as loud as you need/want while having the monitor at just the right amount of volume and with zero feedback from your guitar or mic.