Tall players, dangling forearms, flatpicking posture with dreadnoughts

[ba4x]

Hi Folks,

I see the topic of proper ergonomics for flatpicking discussed quite frequently, and the topic of shoulder pain with dreadnoughts raised often. For my specific query, however, I have not seen a discussion raised: Can tall players obtain proper picking technique, or is there an equipment modification needed? Has anybody tried such a modification?

To be specific, I have some criteria in mind for "proper picking technique". I am talking about the relaxed posture used by many professional bluegrass and flatpicking players. Just pull up a video of your favorite picker on a dreadnought, and you're likely to see these common points: (example)
-Right shoulder is 100% relaxed, not tense or raised in any way.
-Right arm is resting on the lower bout of the guitar. The bicep area is sitting on the side of the guitar, holding the weight of the upper arm, and positioning the crook of the elbow on the edge of the soundboard and side.
-Right forearm is dangling down parallel to the soundboard, touching nowhere except at the aforementioned elbow crook. The right hand is hovering/gliding over the strings, not anchored on the bridge. Some fingers may graze the pickguard.
-Right hand hovers with the pick just around the "sweet spot" for picking: just between the soundhole and bridge.

The location of the right hand is achieved as a result of the length of the forearm and the dimensions of the guitar. It's as simple as that: the forearm dangles from the elbow, which is resting on the lower bout. For a standard sized dreadnought and a "standard size" person, it seems to work out nicely.

Now to my predicament. What about tall players? As it turns out, I ended up quite tall, at 6' 8". This means my forearm is a few inches longer than Bryan Sutton's, for example. If I relax my shoulder and dangle my forearm as described above, the picking hand ends up far from the strings. If angled up, it ends up too high up the strings, near the frets, on the wrong side of the soundhole, and out of the "sweet spot". I end up tensing my shoulder to provide a higher pivot point, or anchoring my palm on the bridge. This results in tension, shoulder fatigue, and sub optimal technique.

I am considering surgery to shorten my forearm. Just kidding. I am thinking of mounting some sort of hardware on the lower bout of my guitar to raise the pivot point. Jack up the shoulder so it can fully relax. Has anybody tried this? Theoretically, this picking technique is achievable for me, it just needs the guitar's dimensions to scale with my body dimensions.

I picked up a Jumbo guitar in hopes of addressing this problem. The lower bout is about 1.25" wider than a dreadnought (or 0.625" on each side). It's a step in the right direction but nowhere close to a drop-in fix.

Of course other postures and guitar shapes may help relieve pain and tension, such as holding the guitar between the legs and a bit lower to allow the long arm to reach down there. Or even the "Johnny Cash" pose where the elbow sits near the bottom of the guitar. OM/000 guitars are nice as the shallow depth helps remove the guitar's edge from the equation. These approaches provide some relief, but they stray too far from the optimal technique I described above. In my stubbornness I'd like to find a way to play the dreadnought in this tried and true fashion.

Thanks and best wishes.

[JC.]

Might be worth studying Greg Koch’s style. He does (or did?) a lot of the Wildwood guitar vids.

[bluemoon]

Hi Ba4x,

I’m tall (just shy of 6’2” with a long torso) but not that tall. I’ve found what really helped me relax was to find a soft leather strap to keep my guitar and importantly its neck in a neutral position. It kinda works like the neck up which you may found helpful but this far for my playing always using a strap as eliminated a ton of issues I was having. Also when switching to a thicker pick I notice I was able to hold it more loosely and thus keep everything more relaxed.

Best of luck!

[bufflehead]

I'm only 6'3", but with long forearms. I find that using a strap 100% of the time, even while seating, is the best way to go. This is especially the case when using guitars smaller than a dread. I also find it helpful to anchor my palm on the bridge, as mentioned in the OP. This works well for me because I do a lot of palm muting.

[ba4x]

Thanks for the tips and suggestions. Sitting with a strap is a great idea, I've started making it part of my practice routine.

I looked a bit into Greg Koch. Seems pretty tall as well. When playing a dread, it looks like he has the edge of soundboard digging into the middle of his forearm. This requires some active use of the shoulder, but apparently it is working well for him.

[ba4x]

I got to try a little experiment today. I cut these harbor freight foam mats into 5" wide strips and layered them to create a bolster for the upper arm. It's as if my guitar became 3" bigger, but retained the general shape.

So far it feels great. I have only played for 30 mins, will need a chance to evaluate any pain/tension tomorrow, and possibly adjust the location and thickness. But there is great sense of relief. I can fully relax my shoulder, letting the bicep sink into the guitar. The picking hand ends up where it needs to be. It feels "right" in a way, like I'm holding a posture that I've seen many times but never experienced. I am excited, hopeful and a bit hesitant.

For the brave ones, here's a photo: https://i.imgur.com/TFED5Cj.jpg
Yes, it's ugly, won't allow the guitar back in the case, and the use of painter's tape might need some reconsidering... But for now I'm counting it a win.

[FGBR]

There's always the Larson Brothers Big Boy

I do think it's very important to find the right fit ergonomically.

[The Bard Rocks]

Most bluegrassers play standing. A simple adjustment to the strap should be all that is needed.

I'd worry that any foam touching the guitar's body would muffle it some. Though it might be a good idea if you practice sitting.

[Mark Stone]

I'm 6'5" and agree with The Bard Rocks. When seated I use a stool rather than a chair, and adjust my strap a little longer than most ppl do. This achieves everything in your list, to wit:

-Right shoulder is 100% relaxed, not tense or raised in any way.
-Right arm is resting on the lower bout of the guitar. The bicep area is sitting on the side of the guitar, holding the weight of the upper arm, and positioning the crook of the elbow on the edge of the soundboard and side.
-Right forearm is dangling down parallel to the soundboard, touching nowhere except at the aforementioned elbow crook. The right hand is hovering/gliding over the strings, not anchored on the bridge. Some fingers may graze the pickguard.
-Right hand hovers with the pick just around the "sweet spot" for picking: just between the soundhole and bridge.

. . . . except the very last point. My hand hovers directly over the soundhole.

Also, I'm 66 yoa but don't have issues with a larger guitar, again because of simple strap adjustment.

[J Patrick]

...perhaps a Willie Nelson style strap might allow the guitar to be comfortably shifted to a position that places the hand in a more ideal position...I don’t know...I never used one....just a thought....

[ba4x]

Originally Posted by FGBR

There's always the Larson Brothers Big Boy

I do think it's very important to find the right fit ergonomically.

Oh my.... It's beautiful!

[ba4x]

Thanks for the tips folks, I do appreciate it. I'm glad to see a run of comments from tall players, maybe future search queries will land here and find some useful information.

For now I'm quite fixated on the relaxed shoulder idea, please excuse me if it seems excessive. Probably because I have a history with rotator cuff issues. When going for fine motor control of the pick, I find the shoulder / rotator cuff wants to tense up even more, and it becomes a problem within minutes. The fixture with the pads I created last night really seems to relieve this. It feels like someone shot a tranquilizer into my deltoid. What relief!

[beninma]

I'm 6'1" but have long arms for my height.

The perverse thing here is a smaller guitar is actually better if you're going to sit even though you think being tall implies a big one would be better. And always always use a strap.

The smaller lower bout actually moves the bridge down and lets you relax your shoulder more. A big Dread does have the top of the bout higher and you think you can rest your arm on it, but it also has the bridge higher, so you're right back to hiking your shoulder up more to keep your arm in the correct posture.

I have a Taylor GC with the built-in armrest.. it brings the bridge down just barely enough to sit in a normal chair if I have to.

I also have a Fender stool, and I got the extra tall one. The extra height really helps. You end up with the guitar hanging off your shoulder instead of sitting on your knee.

I still greatly prefer to stand though. I will only sit if:

- Group session and everyone is insisting on sitting (99% of the time that's acoustic die-hards)

- At home and I'm practicing super late at night/super exhausted, etc..

Standing just makes almost all the annoyances disappear.

Bodies do not just scale up as you get taller.. taller folks generally have proportionally longer arms & legs and shorter torsos relative to height than shorter people.