Toe Dip: Archtop guitars

IPYF · #1 11-21-2012, 04:52 PM

Hi there. Brand new to the forum so I do apologise if this is in the wrong spot, or if this question comes up every 15 minutes..

I was at my local Acoustic store yesterday trying some stuff out. I was planning on finding a nice cheap Cort to get myself into the acoustic world again as I haven't had a working acoustic instrument in years. I hummed and haa-ed over about a dozen acoustics in the lower range not really finding anything I was into. Long story short I ended up playing a couple of archtops for about half an hour and found I really enjoyed the feel of these guitars.

The store had 2 brands, Eastman and Godin 5th Avenue. I played a couple of Godin Kingpins (the I and II) because the Eastmans, while IMO the more handsome instrument, all seemed really far out of my price range. I didn't really have a chance to plug in either.

I'm feeling a bit funky because what I actually need is a good acoustic guitar for small shows and recording, but I now really want an archtop. I think it's because they feel a bit more like an electric, which I'm used to, and also because they are quite cool for jazz which I'm starting to learn.

Here, after much ado are my questions though.

1. If I were to go for an archtop, what instruments would be worth considering? I've only seen 2 brands so I can't really say I've done my research. Bearing in mind I've never spent more than $1500 on an instrument and I wouldn't really be looking to stretch that for anything short of the best ax I've ever played. Is there anything worth having in that price range?

2. How do archtops compare to a full bodied acoustic in the live scenario? Are archtop acoustics more-or-less just a prettier hollow body electric that won't gain up very well? Would I be better off just finding a proper acoustic that I like?
The Godin's all have P90s which indicate to me that a lot of their sound would be akin to a Casino or similar, but would probably howl like a dog if you tried to drive it even the slightest bit.

Anyway. I'm a massive noob with acoustics as I'm primarily a bassist. I already have a Strat and a Mastersound so I don't need any more electric guitars. What would you recommend I do and is there any guitars you reckon I should consider?

BoneDigger · #2 11-21-2012, 05:11 PM

An archtop is a different animal than an acoustic guitar with a pickup. The archtop is great for certain tones, and a full hollow body archtop can have decent acoustic tones as well, but they will never match the tone of an acoustic guitar. I have a full hollow body and I absolutely LOVE it, but it doesn't match my acoustics for unplugged playing.

There are some archtop a made in Asia that can be had for a very reasonable price. Epiphone, Ibanez, and some others can be had for under $500.

Todd

Howard Emerson · #3 11-21-2012, 06:22 PM

"I'm feeling a bit funky because what I actually need is a good acoustic guitar for small shows and recording, but I now really want an archtop. I think it's because they feel a bit more like an electric, which I'm used to, and also because they are quite cool for jazz which I'm starting to learn."

You're in a world of trouble if you actually need a 'real' acoustic guitar for playing out and recording.

If I take you at your word, and assume that your idea of an acoustic guitar is one that is not plugged in, then I can safely say that you can't afford, or won't spend, the kind of money required to satisfy your aural criteria in an archtop.

As far as your thinking that they somehow 'feel more like an electric'? Not a chance, and the simple fact is that Bob Taylor made flat-top acoustics feel like electrics, almost from the start.

Of course this is predicated on the assumption that a low profile neck and low action constitute an electric guitar feel.........which they don't, but I digress.

I get the feeling you're confusing the often laminated, curved top & back electrics that Gibson made in all shapes and size, such as the ES-175, ES-150, et al, and they will never, ever be considered acoustic guitars.

If you like the look of a pseudo archtop guitar and don't mind plugging in, rolling back the tone control to get that mellow jazz sound, then by all means, gopherit. But it's not what you really need, is it?

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving in any event!

HE

IPYF · #4 11-21-2012, 06:45 PM

Hey. Thanks for the responses.
I'd want to play fully acoustic in my lounge room mostly but probably would do that very rarely considering that's where my amp is anyway. I'd never be going out gigging without access to a desk and I have an Egnater rebel stack which I use for my electrics that I'm positive would also suit an acoustic instrument.

I mostly meant that I'd be looking for an acoustic style tone for recording. I think I'm really looking for a good intermediate tool. I'd ideally love something that would meet me somewhere between folk acoustic and gypsy jazz and could emulate both styles effectively while plugged into my soundcard. I don't need anything more on the electric side. I've got my bases covered with electrics.

bohemian · #5 11-21-2012, 07:02 PM

Both are fine guitars..
I own and have played a Godin 5th Ave for several years.

I also own more expensive archtops...

Get a Godin. Fit the bridge. Put decent strings on it. Play. Be happy.

JCave · #6 11-21-2012, 07:10 PM

I purchased a Godin 5th ave earlier this year and would buy it again. There have been a few on C/L lately.

pbla4024 · #7 11-21-2012, 08:23 PM

http://www.theloar.com/products/archtop-guitars

IPYF · #8 11-22-2012, 01:45 PM

Well that escalated extremely quickly.
I ended up making an offer on an eastman ar810ce last night. Turned out the guy accepted and lived just round the corner!

So I'm thinking that an immaculate S/h eastman for $1300 was a pretty good deal for a guitar that retails at over 2k. The bloke was super cool and we had a good long chat about the guitar. He just wanted to sell it due to having too many guitars.

I was terrified because I've never bought a guitar I haven't played before. I was so freaked but it turns out that it's in really good nick and the action is really sweet. It's totally to my liking and is quite a loud acoustic instrument.

Totally thrilled.

geordie · #9 11-22-2012, 02:49 PM

excellent outcome, sensibly priced well made guitars.
Happy playing.

bohemian · #10 11-22-2012, 09:07 PM

That's a good deal. Enjoy it.

Cygnus49 · #11 11-25-2012, 03:41 PM

I agree with Bonedigger and others - you'll find coming from a particular point-of-view/experience sets expectation. I've played Taylors live for years (trained from childhood classically on woodwinds) and play what I call 'professional bar music'. Hardly a purist but I need to make good music so the sound system (cheap but well thought out and appropriate for what I do) and all makes sense.

My recent transition along electric lines to an Ibanez AG75 now with Thomastik-Infeld flatwounds (about $400 new; strings about $20) gets all my time now. I love this thing. Electric enough for blues and acoustic enough for working parts out on the couch. I haven't used it live yet but I doubt it will behave less well (gain/volume) than what I have learned with my Taylors.

Diamond Dave · #12 11-25-2012, 03:55 PM

The Loar archtops get great reviews. I played a Fifth Avenue the other day and it's pretty darn quiet to me.

Here's a YouTube video comparing the Fifth Avenue and the Loar (600 I think).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dud01aQ1oI0

Dr. Jazz · #13 11-25-2012, 04:48 PM

You bought a great guitar. The Eastman 800 series is the least expensive properly carved archtop you can buy today. They are well made and they sound pretty good. Definitely better than the laminates you had been looking at. They have a great acoustic swing sound and a nice plugged in jazz sound. I have clients who have retired their old L-5s from the road and now travel with their Eastman 810 or 910. Congratulations on a excellent find.
However, it's still not a flat-top. it's a completely different animal. A totally different voice. But having said that, I often find I'll take an archie to a flat-top gig just to be a little different. :-) I just have to watch that I don't bury the flat-top guys. A good Archtop will do that. Don't forget that back in the pre-pick-up days they were developed to provide rhythm for a jazz bad with a big horn section.

Archtop Guy · #14 11-26-2012, 12:15 PM

Welcome to the club! You got a great guitar. Carved top acoustic archtops were the choice of many greats from the 20's through the 50's. I'm with Dr. Jazz, a good acoustic archtop like yours can hold up really well in an all acoustic jam simply because they are different from flattops, so they find their own sonic space rather than competing.

Different amp options can yield everything form jangly strumming to delta blues to fat jazz. Enjoy.

corlay · #15 11-26-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Jazz

You bought a great guitar. The Eastman 800 series is the least expensive properly carved archtop you can buy today.

I'll add to this comment by giving a shout-out to the 600 series archtops, as well. Constructed of Mahogany body vs. the traditional Maple, these guitars have a nice and smooth tone, if that's what you're looking for. And they do cost a bit less than the 800 and 900's.