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  #31  
Old 03-01-2021, 07:42 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Wow, what a fascinating story Chris! Good for you!

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  #32  
Old 03-01-2021, 07:45 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Originally Posted by GeorgeG View Post
When you guys find a microphone that works for you does it tend to be closer to the sound you want without eq or does it tend to be a mic that “take eq” better to give you what you are looking for. I started off making the mistake of not finding out what a given mic would sound like after I finished processing the track. Some sound better to me by say brightening them up vs a mic that starts off brighter but harsher.

What say you guys?


George
Hi George,

I don't have the kind of microphones that Chris described, but even the mics that I have rarely require any equalization of any kind. I like to find microphones that are accurate enough that I like the way they sound as the sound is recorded.

Perhaps in a very dense mix with a lot of other instruments some subtractive equalization might be used to make certain tracks stand out. But I rarely do anything, even multi-track recordings, that are dense enough to need much in the way of equalization.

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  #33  
Old 03-01-2021, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeG View Post
When you guys find a microphone that works for you does it tend to be closer to the sound you want without eq or does it tend to be a mic that “take eq” better to give you what you are looking for. I started off making the mistake of not finding out what a given mic would sound like after I finished processing the track. Some sound better to me by say brightening them up vs a mic that starts off brighter but harsher.

What say you guys?


George
A matter of personal preference, and perhaps related to your musical and production style - but for me, I'm looking for a good sound right out of the gate, with no processing needed. Think of it like going to the butcher shop for dinner. The butcher suggests two steaks: the first he says tastes pretty bad by itself, but layer it with a bottle of steak sauce and it'll be good, or the second that he says is so good by itself that you should just grill it and don't put any sauce on it. Which do you want? Reasonable people might choose differently, but I know which one I want...

Keep in mind that mic differences are more subtle than the internet leads us to believe. It's not that there are no differences, there are (and I have favorites that seem to work "better" for me). But mic placement, your room, your guitar or voice, your playing, are all going to make far bigger differences most of the time. Check out the Audio Test Kitchen, if you haven't: https://www.audiotestkitchen.com/ to see some examples of how various mics compare. I also recommend downloading the free Townsend plugin along with their test samples, which lets you hear emulations of various mics and play with things like mic distance, proximity effect and more, virtually and interactively. The mic modeling may or may not sound like the real thing, but it's highly educational, regardless.
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Old 03-01-2021, 09:28 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Aloha George,

Good questions.

For over 40 years, I was a hopeless, high-end mic addict. I started harmlessly out on cheaper mic's (under $1K). Then moved up to 'gateway' mid-range mics (over $1K). I saved & built a bank-roll, using gig & CD-sales money only, nothing from my day job...& went to "work." Most importantly, I quickly figured out the markets, locations & players in an intense game, & spent years auditioning, trading & buying, or simply trading up the highest-end mic's ($10K-$50K), & bigger players, looking for the grail for me.

It started with some basic needs:

1) I'm blessed/cursed to have a great pair of trained ears that are still pitch perfect, even today at 76,

2) As a luthier in the 80's, I needed to capture the best raw sound of my many acoustic instruments, and

3) For over 50 years, I was an almost nightly gigger who was always looking for "my best" sounding live & studio mic's for the recordings I made for sale at gigs. LIVE was always my main focus Although I did appear on others' recordings from time to time, on the different instruments I made, I only limited-released a couple of my own album/recordings of original music.

From those basic acoustic needs grew the absolutely satisfying, wildly fun & worthwhile mic addiction that continued for decades until......I auditioned the Schoeps CMC6 w/ MK-41 hyper cardioid capsules (& many other capsules in their modular approach).

For me, my ultimate SDC search ended right then & there, George. Raw or processed, the very balanced & natural, amazingly-detailed, & always musical sound that a matched pair of Schoeps captured, for me - on all my instruments, was the absolute closest to the sound inside my head AND in my ears - always.

A very different mic, the Microtech-Gefell M295 cardioid w/ metal diaphragm was also hugely satisfying in capturing my raw acoustic sound. But its metal caps did not like the high humidity of Hawaii..... Great mic's though!

For my vocals, I played "heavy high-end" there for a long time, refusing to believe that my voice was the lowest common denominator in my recording studio signal chain. HA!

I went through U47's & 48's like they were SM-58's at one point there, spending a whopping $17K for one old 50's U-47 (found in Germany) that was owned & used by Frank Sinatra on his Columbia recordings. Had it for a couple months, enjoyed its smooth lower mid's, then made a $2K profit on it in Japan & moved on to......

My ultimate studio LDC vocal mic: the Microtech-Gefell UM-900, an incredible Art Deco-designed, variable 5-pattern beauty with everything my voice could ever want or need. The only tube LDC ever that ran on 48V phantom power, not an external power supply! Combined with a Pendulum MDP-1a tube preamp, the UM-900 always put me into acoustic nirvana in my little, but really well-planned & treated home studio. Living alone up in the rainforest, I'd spend weeks up there blissing out on those mic's. And at just-under $5K, the new UM-900 wasn't nearly as expensive or unreliable as all those vintage "U's."

When I heard those two high-end mic's - a pair of SDC's & an LDC - after auditioning thousands & owning hundreds of outstanding mic's? THAT WAS THE END OF 'DA SOICH' for me. And it was the absolute APEX & final act of my addiction. I never bought, or even thought of auditioning, trading or buying another mic ever again.

In the end, when I analyzed my addiction, I realized that it was the love of pure acoustic tone, my curiosity, & the incredible fun of meeting all the very cool & knowledgable people I 'did' mic deals with, all over the world, that was the source of it all. I won some. I lost some. But I found a way of building resources & other mic's up, without hardly any money after awhile, all just to play at home through some of the best classic mic's ever made - mostly by trading with VERY cool people.

I mean COOL. I met Ben Harper in the process, another total mic addict with great musical knowledge & real talent. We would talk & laugh & later play on Skype 'Mic's" for hours over quite a long period of years. Many Cool People, George!

Those were very fun years in my life, but no more. At 76, I can no longer play, sing or record. "But I had my fun!" (Chambers Brothers-'69)

That's me story & I'm stickin' to it, George! The ride was worth the fare!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris
When I am in hunting mode as I am now on microphones I buy and trade used at safe prices as you described. Sometimes when I find what I am looking for I buy a final version new but often I don't bother. You get to try many items at no cost that way.

George
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  #35  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeG View Post
When you guys find a microphone that works for you does it tend to be closer to the sound you want without eq or does it tend to be a mic that “take eq” better to give you what you are looking for. I started off making the mistake of not finding out what a given mic would sound like after I finished processing the track. Some sound better to me by say brightening them up vs a mic that starts off brighter but harsher.

What say you guys?


George
For me also I prefer closer, without EQ . However given most of my productions involve multi instrument and voice I almost always use a high pass filter with a pretty steep drop off at somewhere around 50-70 hz

As far as terms like "bright or harsh" it is always subjective of course and depending on ones interpretations. But in my mic search (much more limited in numbers than say Chris or Doug) in general (not always) but in general, seems to me the less expensive especially the Chinese MFG LDC's ' do often tend to be bright and quickly harsh in the mid-high, to high end .
Where as often when you get into the more expensive LDCs that may be known for "detailed" high end, while they can tend to be subject to sibilance considerations,,, BUT not necessarily "harsh"

The examples of "Air" but not harsh from my personal experience are my Brauner Phantom V FET and my ADK Z Mod 251 Tube . To my ear on my voice they provide a "3D-ish" Air to the top end but are not really harsh... I do however have to be aware of sibilance when singing. BUT for me in mixing , I prefer to use a narrow Q, one band, automated, EQ cut on say any spitty "S-es" than to have to try to EQ IN air and presence, that is not in the original recording.

Any yet it is kind of opposite in terms of guitar mics I have had a pair Of Shure KSM 44's which were actually quite good , but moved on to a single Schoeps CMC6 - MK 4 that was excellent (but not a pair, do wish I still had it BUT ) Ultimately however I sold the Schoeps and settled on a Pair of AEA N 22 active ribbons which are perhaps better characterized as smooth in the high end (which for my use and on my guitar/s is good)
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  #36  
Old 03-05-2021, 10:41 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Well I’m in the process of scouting good deals on the usual suspects to find my preferred acoustic guitar mic(s). NT5,SM81,KM184,ATM450, SM57 so far either here or on the way. Enjoying the 421 for vocals right now. Seems to smooth out the roughness in my voice. Didn’t like it too much for guitar.

Question regarding recording. What placement do you prefer - 12th fret, sound hole, etc? Also do you use more than one mic and mix to balance say treble and bass or for some room reverb? Been playing for 60 years but recording and mixing for less than a year.


Thanks,

George
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Old 03-05-2021, 11:05 AM
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Question regarding recording. What placement do you prefer - 12th fret, sound hole, etc? Also do you use more than one mic and mix to balance say treble and bass or for some room reverb?
Avoid the sound hole, that's the one spot not to place a mic. Otherwise, there are lots of options. Here are two videos that might help introduce you to the basics, one that walks thru the entire recording process (quickly) including a brief look at editing and mixing and one that shows some typical mic placements.




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Old 03-05-2021, 11:36 AM
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Dougs video's are great references

So based on his stereo mic techniques the one I am using currently, I guess you call spaced pair maybe 18" ? They are a pair of figure 8 Ribbons pointed at about the 12-14 Fret and just behind the bridge (The camera is actually angled a bit so the actual 90 degree straight pointing of the mic's on, is more to the right than in the photo)

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Last edited by KevWind; 03-05-2021 at 11:58 AM.
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  #39  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:01 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Excellent videos, Doug! I enjoyed them both!

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Old 03-05-2021, 12:29 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Avoid the sound hole, that's the one spot not to place a mic. Otherwise, there are lots of options. Here are two videos that might help introduce you to the basics, one that walks thru the entire recording process (quickly) including a brief look at editing and mixing and one that shows some typical mic placements.
What great concise videos, thank you.


George
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:47 PM
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What great concise videos, thank you.


George
Thanks, glad it was useful. There's a written article that goes along with the 1st video that fills in some of the details:

https://acousticguitar.com/home-reco...oustic-guitar/
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  #42  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:52 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Thanks, glad it was useful. There's a written article that goes along with the 1st video that fills in some of the details:

https://acousticguitar.com/home-reco...oustic-guitar/
Most you tube videos are unedited and about three times longer than they need to be. On that first one you need to read fast to keep up. I love it.


George
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  #43  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeG View Post
Most you tube videos are unedited and about three times longer than they need to be. On that first one you need to read fast to keep up. I love it.


George
Yeah, maybe even too fast. That was actually my 2nd stab at that one, where I slowed it down from my original attempt, which was even shorter. I was on a kick of being annoyed by those videos you're describing, where people blather on for 10 minutes, so I was trying for a no talking, "just the beef" approach.
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  #44  
Old 03-05-2021, 06:55 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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On a related note, do you guys find that certain guitars record better and if so what do you like?


George
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  #45  
Old 03-05-2021, 07:25 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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On a related note, do you guys find that certain guitars record better and if so what do you like?


George
I think as long as you like the sound of your guitar, if you have an essentially neutral, accurate microphone (or two for stereo), then the guitar will record a sound you will like.

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