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  #46  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:02 AM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is online now
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Originally Posted by Bigredhog View Post
I guess if they want to sell expensive guitars they will tell us what wood they used. The whole “flexible in case of wood shortages” is the biggest line of horse pucky. They know darn well what their inventory of raw material is at any given moment.
Red, it's really simple. To reprint the product specifications every time they have to change from one wood for the neck to another would cost them a great deal of money without bringing them any discernible benefits other than placating a few folks like you. It's an extremely common business practice - if you take out just about any randomly selected processed food product from your pantry, you'll see the words: "May include safflower, corn oil or other oils" or words along those lines. The same thing with things like shaving cream, shampoo and other grooming products. Manufacturers often have to substitute ingredients and materials at short notice.

Now, you've made it very clear that you find this practice outrageous as well as ethically dubious, and it angers you a great deal.

Fair enough. I'm not going to try to convince you to buy a Martin guitar. But I think your anger is misplaced, partially because Martin has one of the best records in truthfully labeling what woods they use without resorting to misdirection of just about ANY of the major guitar companies. About the only other major acoustic guitar manufacturer that's equally open about which woods they use is Taylor.

For example, if you go shopping for a mahogany guitar, most companies these days are using mahogany-like woods like khaya and sapele instead of Honduran mahogany, which is what most of us would expect. The scientific name for Honduran mahogany is Swietenia macrophylla, and it's a true mahogany.

Khaya is in another genus, which is considered to be close to genuine mahogany but not quite, and sapele is even further from genuine mahogany. Neither is a Swietenia. Yet both of those African hardwoods commonly get used and described in these guitar companies' promotional literature as "mahogany," with no further explanation given.

Yet Martin has never done that. They have been completely straightforward about the woods that they use, even though they have begun to use the phrase "select hardwoods" that offends you so much when it's used to describe the neck woods.

I know better than to try to persuade anyone who's bound and determined to be angry about something that they shouldn't be, so I won't try here. But I'd suggest you get indignant about other guitar manufacturers' loose descriptions of the woods they use before you target Martin.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #47  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:39 PM
Bigredhog Bigredhog is offline
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Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Red, it's really simple. To reprint the product specifications every time they have to change from one wood for the neck to another would cost them a great deal of money without bringing them any discernible benefits other than placating a few folks like you. It's an extremely common business practice - if you take out just about any randomly selected processed food product from your pantry, you'll see the words: "May include safflower, corn oil or other oils" or words along those lines. The same thing with things like shaving cream, shampoo and other grooming products. Manufacturers often have to substitute ingredients and materials at short notice.

Now, you've made it very clear that you find this practice outrageous as well as ethically dubious, and it angers you a great deal.

Fair enough. I'm not going to try to convince you to buy a Martin guitar. But I think your anger is misplaced, partially because Martin has one of the best records in truthfully labeling what woods they use without resorting to misdirection of just about ANY of the major guitar companies. About the only other major acoustic guitar manufacturer that's equally open about which woods they use is Taylor.

For example, if you go shopping for a mahogany guitar, most companies these days are using mahogany-like woods like khaya and sapele instead of Honduran mahogany, which is what most of us would expect. The scientific name for Honduran mahogany is Swietenia macrophylla, and it's a true mahogany.

Khaya is in another genus, which is considered to be close to genuine mahogany but not quite, and sapele is even further from genuine mahogany. Neither is a Swietenia. Yet both of those African hardwoods commonly get used and described in these guitar companies' promotional literature as "mahogany," with no further explanation given.

Yet Martin has never done that. They have been completely straightforward about the woods that they use, even though they have begun to use the phrase "select hardwoods" that offends you so much when it's used to describe the neck woods.

I know better than to try to persuade anyone who's bound and determined to be angry about something that they shouldn't be, so I won't try here. But I'd suggest you get indignant about other guitar manufacturers' loose descriptions of the woods they use before you target Martin.


Wade Hampton Miller
Not angry just miffed me a bit. In actuality it worked in their favor since I declined buying a D-28 for that reason. Buuut the D-41 is plainly labeled as far a construction is concerned and Maury gave me a great deal on one
One big difference is we are talking expensive guitars not a .89 cent can of food.

I will just say in my line of work the hype and marketing of earth friendly products is used to increase profit and degrade product quality and reliability on a regular basis. So it doesn’t take much for my BS meter to go into the red and the term “select hardware” does it. Like most things these days it is what it is. Now I’m gonna play my D-41 sporting it’s Mahogany neck
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:07 PM
51 Relic 51 Relic is offline
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Default interesting Video on Richlite fingerboards

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Originally Posted by slooky View Post
Rubbery feel? If it had a slight rubbery feel it wasn't richlite.


I've owned a Jeff Tweedy Martin for about two years now and it must have been at least two months before I realised that the bridge and fretboard were Richlite , I really couldn't tell the difference . One strange offshoot with my Martin is that the strings last a lot longer then with my other Acoustics ( same strings same gauge ) all in all my Martins a keeper
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  #49  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:29 PM
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The snob in me values the traditional woods like ebony, the realist knows that these are scarce and unsustainable and that man made materials have practical benefits. I'd say the latter outweighs the former for me and I would happily buy a guitar with richlite fingerboard/bridge. I'm pretty sceptical that fingerboard wood (at least rosewood/ebony/richlite) really changes the sound significantly on an acoustic unless we're talking about something slippery like maple.
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  #50  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:35 PM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
There's a superior product to Richlite available and it's starting to make the rounds in the luthiery community.

The product is Rocklite Ebano (ebony substitute) and Rocklite Sundari (rosewood substitute). The material is made from actual wood fiber and is not made from the finer paper pulp. I've used it on a few instruments and love it.

Here's a quick video from O'Brien Guitars relating his experience with the rosewood (Sundari) variety:

https://youtu.be/0Q3ckhjYV2I
The winner eventually will be this product - unless it is very expensive.
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  #51  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:43 PM
slooky slooky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 51 Relic View Post
I've owned a Jeff Tweedy Martin for about two years now and it must have been at least two months before I realised that the bridge and fretboard were Richlite , I really couldn't tell the difference . One strange offshoot with my Martin is that the strings last a lot longer then with my other Acoustics ( same strings same gauge ) all in all my Martins a keeper
I have 3 Martins and all of them have a richlite bridge and fretboard. I actually prefer it than an ebony or rosewood fretboard. I find the wood fretboards retain dirt and sweat. With richlite not so much.
The video on richlite was really quite fascinating.
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  #52  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:40 PM
archerscreek archerscreek is offline
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I owned a Martin guitar with a Richlite fretboard for 15+ years. It looked, played, sounded, and felt great. I'd have zero issues owning another musical instrument with such a board.

And I'm always amused reading comments that criticize players' technique and abilities if they feel the fretboard at various times while they play. Always makes for eye rolling entertainment.
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