Ego and your driving force to perform in public

[thestubbyone]

What are your experiences playing in groups where a conflict develops between band members and how do you handle it, or do you? The insider info on big name groups and their vicious disputes between each other, sometimes even on stage, is legendary.

My perspective on ego and driving force is its an essential trait to get the nerve to perform. However, its also a very destructive force for me when it turns into a belief that you are something good or better than someone else. And the fine line of keeping the good part of your belief in yourself in check from being total egotistical and obnoxious. I have found my singing is the best when I walk up to the mic and feel that in someways I am not worthy, but still not having any fear or stage fright also. What are your experiences on performing?

[Inyo]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

...I have found my singing is the best when I walk up to the mic and feel that in someways I am not worthy, but still not having any fear or stage fright also...

Somebody has to post it:



Addendum: One must know that rather recently a 190 million year-old worm, an annelid, was named in honor of Alice Cooper (who's featured in the video clip, above).

From a web page over at https://americansongwriter.com/ancie...-alice-cooper/ :

Ancient Worm Fossil Named in Honor of Shock Rocker Alice Cooper

by
Em Casalena
a day ago

A fossil of a 190-million-year-old worm has been found in Denmark, and it’s going to join the league of ancient creatures named after famous rock stars. The fossil has been named Serpula alicecooperi after famed American shock-rocker Alice Cooper.

The Alice Cooper fossil is a serpulid worm. This is a type of marine worm that is capable of creating calcium tubes to live in. These creatures can filter sea water with their tentacles and retract into their calcium tubes when threatened. We don’t know how this screams “Alice Cooper”, but it’s an honor nonetheless.

The ancient creature’s fossil was discovered by Mette Hoftstedt in Hasle sandstone on the island of Bornholm in Denmark. It is currently being studied by geologists and researchers at Geomuseum Faxe, also in Denmark.

Why Was The Fossil Named After Alice Cooper?

Luckily, one of the researchers provided some insight into why they chose the “No More Mr. Nice Guy” singer to be the namesake of the new species.

“When we studied the fossil, it quickly became clear that it was a new and unknown species of serpulid worm we were dealing with,” said Jesper Milàn, a researcher at Geomuseum Faxe. “Being both a paleontologist and a huge fan of metal and rock music, I have always thought that if somebody deserved to have a fossil named in his honor, it should be Alice for his enormous impact on the musical scene during the last [half-century], and his music has been firmly playing in the background during much of my research.”

“Serpulid worms were pioneers in their particular lifestyle when they first evolved,” Milàn continued. “Alice was a pioneer of the shock rock scene when he arrived during the late sixties, and he is still around to this very day.”

[Mandobart]

I don't completely agree that ego is an essential driving force to get the nerve to perform. I've been performing since I was a kid, so I may just be more used to it than those who came to it later in life.

One of the things that drove me to solo performance included an honest desire to share artists, music and instruments that are not common to US audiences. Another was to meet other musicians.

I've seen plenty of "desperate for attention" performers who appear to have an overactive ego, which gives the impression they're compensating for something. IMO it's sad and embarrassing to watch.

These days I do just a dozen or so paying gigs a year to raise funds for our annual bluegrass festival. But I get together to play with friends 3 - 5 times a week. I'm primarily a lead and harmony singing double bass player with a very good memory for songs and lyrics, and the ability to pick up songs quickly regardless of the key or rhythm. I can say without boasting that I add a lot to a jam or band performance. But I really get a lot out of it too. We had a great jam turnout at the WAMA (Washington Acoustic Music Association) jam suite at Wintergrass.

I'm much more driven by the enjoyment I get from playing with others than playing for an audience.

[Br1ck]

I was in a band with a very good guitarist who was both egocentric and a control freak. Lasted 25 years. Why? He was the best guitar player I will ever play with, and the drummer was too. Our singer could sell a song and we did a lot of three part harmonies. We didn't play out much because the pay compared to day job money was laughable. We did weddings and birthdays and wakes, mostly for friends. Winery private parties were a blast. I can't recall one song that wasn't chosen by the lead guitarist. He had really good taste and we played a lot of Steely Dan, some Pat Metheny and Weather Report and a whole lot of Kinks, Who, Hendrix and Cream, and of course Beatles.

Many times I had to weigh the good and the bad and choose. That is what you have to do. Pluses have to outnumber minuses. When circumstance led to the breakup, just life change moving away stuff, I was inundated with requests to play in bands. I was a good bass player. I declined because the musicians weren't as good as I was used to. I didn't want to be in a band where I was better than at least one guitarist.

I've focused on solo original acoustic music ever sense. Finding four or five people with common outlook and goals, and who really want to work at it is very, very hard. You really are dealing with significant others too. And drummers, don't get me started.....

Even a duo is hard. I like to think I bring a lot to the table. I can play guitar, mandolin, bass and some dobro and sing harmony, all at a decent if not stellar level. Do I want to form a duo with a singer songwriter who strums only, and won't learn harmony? How will that satisfy me and my songs? I need another me. Where is a clone when you need one? Yes, I fully realize my attitude would be counter productive. Should I ever meet someone whose talent was such that I'd enjoy backing him or her up, I'd be all in. Gladly.

[fazool]

nope for me its kinda the opposite - I was just thinking of this.

I like playing my guitar and the feeling of playing music. For me I have *ZERO* interest in recognition or "hero worship" or anything. But I get seriously motivated to entertain people

I do it for them, not for me.


I played with a guitar player who was twice the musician as me but had an ego that was twenty times as big. I liked him and his playing but he was a terrible collaborator. We got a new guitarist recently and he is a totally different vibe - we play TOGETHER.

You need a little self confidence to ham it up on stage but I have no use for egomaniacs - I dont care how good they are

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

What are your experiences playing in groups where a conflict develops between band members and how do you handle it, or do you?

In my experience, too much of this becomes the kiss of death, particularly in pre-stardom situations (the only ones I know).
Having it happen in an established group with a solid following and regular booking is probably different (with $$$ comes greater tolerance).

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

My perspective on ego and driving force is its an essential trait to get the nerve to perform. However, its also a very destructive force for me when it turns into a belief that you are something good or better than someone else. And the fine line of keeping the good part of your belief in yourself in check from being total egotistical and obnoxious. I have found my singing is the best when I walk up to the mic and feel that in someways I am not worthy, but still not having any fear or stage fright also. What are your experiences on performing?

To me, ego is inherently neither good or bad.
We all benefit from realistic confidence.
Unrealistic confidence begets the issues I think your are alluding to.

I absolutely believe I am a better player than most (or all) of the audience when I perform.
(With over 50 years of performance experience, it's not an empty boast.)
I'd be living a lie if I approached the mic thinking I was mediocre and not worthy of being there.

Belief in yourself != arrogance or egotism.

If subtly degrading your confidence works for you, great. I spent too many years holding myself back due to lack of confidence to ever want to go back.

[The Bard Rocks]

I began to gig primarily because I want to promote the kind of music I prefer. Some think it is obscure. Mostly it's older than the audience. That is the same reason I started our concert series here.

Along the way, I discovered it was fun to work out arrangements, make set lists, dig into the background of what I sing and play.... It added another whole aspect of fun to the music I'd been playing for the last 40 years. Should have started that sooner.

[Glennwillow]

I have done just about all my performing solo. I did do a professional stint with our entire family, wife and children, which worked out extremely well. Everybody, even the kids, had a say in things. I don't remember any issues. Then again, I was the dad and the main songwriter, so I suppose everyone else essentially deferred to me.

- Glenn

[Osage]

Originally Posted by thestubbyone

What are your experiences playing in groups where a conflict develops between band members and how do you handle it, or do you?

I guess if the money was good enough, you could not handle it, but I wouldn't be able to handle playing in a band with someone I genuinely didn't get along with. In a lot of ways, I've probably been the difficult one in my bands but most of that is anxiety and general insecurity. I've been in a bunch of bands but spent 25+ years in one and my current main one, while part time at this point, has been together for 15 years.

I'm not for ignoring issues but if you're on the road and everyone's exhausted etc... and someone is a jerk on stage or after a gig or whatever, the best thing to do is just forget it, especially if it's out of character and they apologize. If you're the jerk, an apology by the next morning is a must. If it becomes a habit, you need to talk with them openly about it but it can be both emotionally and physically draining to be in a band and you shouldn't forget that people aren't always at their best when they're exhausted.

For more major things, talking it out is the best thing. I had issues with a band member in the past and we came to a pretty solid understanding after hashing it out one day and played together for another decade. I also had a band member that I just couldn't deal with and I left that band.

If the issues are purely musical, I'm not sure how I'd handle that. I've been in bands where there is a clear musical leader and in that situation, I know my place. I've been in bands where everyone has equal say and everything in between and it all works as long as you know the deal going in.

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I was in a band with a very good guitarist who was both egocentric and a control freak. Lasted 25 years. Why? He was the best guitar player I will ever play with, and the drummer was too. Our singer could sell a song and we did a lot of three part harmonies. We didn't play out much because the pay compared to day job money was laughable. We did weddings and birthdays and wakes, mostly for friends. Winery private parties were a blast. I can't recall one song that wasn't chosen by the lead guitarist. He had really good taste and we played a lot of Steely Dan, some Pat Metheny and Weather Report and a whole lot of Kinks, Who, Hendrix and Cream, and of course Beatles.

Many times I had to weigh the good and the bad and choose. That is what you have to do. Pluses have to outnumber minuses. When circumstance led to the breakup, just life change moving away stuff, I was inundated with requests to play in bands. I was a good bass player. I declined because the musicians weren't as good as I was used to. I didn't want to be in a band where I was better than at least one guitarist.

I've focused on solo original acoustic music ever sense. Finding four or five people with common outlook and goals, and who really want to work at it is very, very hard. You really are dealing with significant others too. And drummers, don't get me started.....

Even a duo is hard. I like to think I bring a lot to the table. I can play guitar, mandolin, bass and some dobro and sing harmony, all at a decent if not stellar level. Do I want to form a duo with a singer songwriter who strums only, and won't learn harmony? How will that satisfy me and my songs? I need another me. Where is a clone when you need one? Yes, I fully realize my attitude would be counter productive. Should I ever meet someone whose talent was such that I'd enjoy backing him or her up, I'd be all in. Gladly.

I agree completely with you on the difficulty of finding other musicians who can "synergize" and work together in a harmonious group. When I find musicians who I can work well with they either dont have the time because of other commitments or just dont want to. The ones I have found that are at my level or better and can commit to something regular are not for me to be found. Now occasionally I have encountered really good ones that wanted to do something but their egos and personalities did not jive with me. And if I cant enjoy what I am doing I dont want to do it.

I had the opportunity to sing back up vocals for a locally famous female singer in my area for a big concert at a park that had almost 3000 people in attendance. When she was on stage she gave the persona of a very engaging, sensitive person alive with life and passion at prior concerts I had witnessed. I heard her sing quite a few times and was impressed. But when I met at rehearsals before the show, she was an arrogant, bossy musician acting almost like a goddess. It turned me off so much that I did 2 performances with her and never again even though I was asked again.

When I am listening to live music and the performers egotism hangs out for all to see, it turns me off totally. I dont want to hear it anymore. A lot of the big stage performers have long taken the cue and always put on a humble act even if they are not and really have raging egos.

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by Osage

I guess if the money was good enough, you could not handle it, but I wouldn't be able to handle playing in a band with someone I genuinely didn't get along with. In a lot of ways, I've probably been the difficult one in my bands but most of that is anxiety and general insecurity. I've been in a bunch of bands but spent 25+ years in one and my current main one, while part time at this point, has been together for 15 years.

I'm not for ignoring issues but if you're on the road and everyone's exhausted etc... and someone is a jerk on stage or after a gig or whatever, the best thing to do is just forget it, especially if it's out of character and they apologize. If you're the jerk, an apology by the next morning is a must. If it becomes a habit, you need to talk with them openly about it but it can be both emotionally and physically draining to be in a band and you shouldn't forget that people aren't always at their best when they're exhausted.

For more major things, talking it out is the best thing. I had issues with a band member in the past and we came to a pretty solid understanding after hashing it out one day and played together for another decade. I also had a band member that I just couldn't deal with and I left that band.

If the issues are purely musical, I'm not sure how I'd handle that. I've been in bands where there is a clear musical leader and in that situation, I know my place. I've been in bands where everyone has equal say and everything in between and it all works as long as you know the deal going in.

Interesting that you were in groups where no leader arose to direct the group. One group I was in before covid was formed and one guy, a singer and guitar player immediately took over dominance in the group. I was a singer and player too and sometimes we clashed on what songs we would do. He wanted to solo sing almost all of them and did not have any interest in singing harmony with me. On the other hand, he was a dedicated leader and spent more time than everybody else in the group combined working on things about the group including opening his house up for us to practice and jam. So now in retrospect, contemplating the difficulties in getting a group together and keeping it together, I have a lot of respect and admiration for what he did.

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by fazool

nope for me its kinda the opposite - I was just thinking of this.

I like playing my guitar and the feeling of playing music. For me I have *ZERO* interest in recognition or "hero worship" or anything. But I get seriously motivated to entertain people

I do it for them, not for me.


I played with a guitar player who was twice the musician as me but had an ego that was twenty times as big. I liked him and his playing but he was a terrible collaborator. We got a new guitarist recently and he is a totally different vibe - we play TOGETHER.

You need a little self confidence to ham it up on stage but I have no use for egomaniacs - I dont care how good they are

I am the same way, I cant stand egomaniacs and I try very hard not to be one. And the only real purpose I can find in making music is to make people happy and enjoy it. But when people give me complements my ego starts to grow and gets in the way of the whole thing.

[zuzu]

I've always been the first one out the door when egos get seriously involved, just no use in it to me. For myself; kinda hate to bring it up again, but my musical mentor's influence on how I approach every aspect of music is simply undeniable. And he could blithely deflate an ego in about 3 seconds, mine or anyone else's, a trait I do not posses. How you reacted was up to you. And that said, on a particular night, especially off stage band activities such as rehearsals, recording, business meetings, etc., someone may walk in the room with ideas they don't want dismissed and get huffy if they seem to be dismissed or even receive a lukewarm reaction. For decades, my way of dealing with that is to let them be the big boss man for the evening, and don't get whiny about it. This too shall pass. But if someone gets to seriously feeding their ego to the point of risking the chemistry of the group, I'm out.

[mike o]

Bands and groups can be very difficult. Having true democracy where everyone has real respectful input and no ego(s)? Very rare. I my experiences, it’s better to have a true band leader who you trust there decision making and your personal goals are aligned. I have no interest in being the leader.

[Bob Womack]

I've thought of this quite a bit. Drive... and ego... from TWO band members who differ on aesthetics can lead to some of the best music ever created. Think of the amount of 1970s music that was created by bands that had vocalists and lead guitarists who disagreed on the direction and tugged at each other throughout the bands existence.

What is needed is a modicum of humility and wisdom that allow the members to benefit from each other's talents and "give" enough to keep everyone happy.

I'm thinking right now of The Doobie Brothers. They have in Tom Johnston and Pat Simmons two lead vocalists and lead guitarists. They became best friends and writing partners and have been together over fifty years with some on and off. The band developed systems - everyone had a vote and some say but the person who brought in the song was the boss. Their producer, Ted Templeman, guided them through development of their songs. For instance, "Long Train Runnin' " was an instrumental warmup and a jam based on Tom Johnston's riffs. They recorded a warmup session towards the end of the sessions for The Captain and Me album and Ted liked what he heard. He suggested Tom write lyrics. Tom did, the song was organized and recorded properly with contributions from the band, and voile', a hit.

Bob