Raw vocal recording from Zoom R24 - Poor Wand'ring One

[wcap]

When I was thinking about buying my Zoom R24 I was really wanting to find some examples of music recorded with this unit. In case anyone is interested in what this device is capable of, here is a recording I did today of my daughter, recorded in our church, using the built-in microphones of the R24.

This is a raw recording straight from the R24.

I have no doubt that better recording equipment and someone more experienced in recording could have gotten better sound than this, but I was pretty pleased by this (the great acoustics of the church don't hurt any):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB08VshgRnQ

Hopefully this will be of use to someone.

[wcap]

As I listen to this I realize I can't make out a lot of the words. I don't know how much of this is a performance issue vs. a recording quality issue. I suspect it is a bit of both.

[dannyg1]

That's a pretty good sound for built in mics. I have an R24 and other than a couple of issues (Cannot get pop free recordings in 24/96. Phantom power buzzes), I'm almost happy with it. If ambient recordings sound like that (I've never tried), maybe I'm a little happier.

[wcap]

Well, of course, ambient recordings depend a lot on the recording space. This was recorded in a place with fabulous acoustics. What I think this recording demonstrates for me is that if the acoustics in the room are good, the R24 is capable of making a pretty pleasing recording of it.

At home where we don't have good acoustics I suspect the built-in mics are going to be much less suitable (I have not tested this a lot, but this is my impression) because the microphones are omnidirectional, so it is harder to isolate the source of the sound from all the room reverb (which in some cases is sort of ugly sounding) than if you are using more directional external mics.

I have not run into the problems you mentioned regarding phantom power. Most of my recordings have been done with external condenser mics using phantom power.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

That's a pretty good sound for built in mics. I have an R24 and other than a couple of issues (Cannot get pop free recordings in 24/96. Phantom power buzzes), I'm almost happy with it. If ambient recordings sound like that (I've never tried), maybe I'm a little happier.

First, The R24 doesn't record at 24/96.

The R24 has a fairly well-known problem with the phantom power on the initial production runs in the form of a high-pitched carrier frequency in the audio when it was switched on. Mine was repaired at no charge (thanks to the additional year warranty provided at no charge when purchased at Sweetwater). There are quite a few folks that purchased used R24s that are stuck with doing work-arounds for phantom power on the 4 effected inputs.

It's capable of making great recordings, but it's only going to sound as good as what you're using for an input, the skill in using that input source, and the environment in which it is used.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

.....

The R24 has a fairly well-known problem with the phantom power on the initial production runs in the form of a high-pitched carrier frequency in the audio when it was switched on. ........

What was the time period where they were having problems? I got mine in December of 2011 - I'm assuming this must have been after they fixed this problem? I certainly have not noticed any issues with this.....

..... on the other hand, I did buy one microphone (a lower priced condenser microphone often talked about here....I'm drawing a blank on the name) that had a problem with a high pitched whine. I returned it (it was purchased locally). When I returned it they tried it out on one of their systems in the shop and found no problems (but they still accepted the return). Now I'm wondering whether it was not the microphone after all. My three Rode microphones work fine with the Zoom R24 though - undetectable background noise unless I turn the gain really high, and even then it is just normal background hiss, not a high pitched whine or buzz.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by wcap

What was the time period where they were having problems? I got mine in December of 2011 - I'm assuming this must have been after they fixed this problem? I certainly have not noticed any issues with this.....

..... on the other hand, I did buy one microphone (a lower priced condenser microphone often talked about here....I'm drawing a blank on the name) that had a problem with a high pitched whine. I returned it (it was purchased locally). When I returned it they tried it out on one of their systems in the shop and found no problems (but they still accepted the return). Now I'm wondering whether it was not the microphone after all. My three Rode microphones work fine with the Zoom R24 though - undetectable background noise unless I turn the gain really high, and even then it is just normal background hiss, not a high pitched whine or buzz.

I purchased my R24 sometime mid-2011, but I can't put a finger on the exact date. You can search the Zoom R24 forum if you want a sample of the range of issues. In their defense they have sold A LOT of these machines, and the majority of users have no issues. Mine only had problems if I was using multiple mics. Some of the users on the Zoom forum also found it was dependant on the particular mic they were using. I would be willing to bet hard cash that it wasn't your mic that was whining.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

First, The R24 doesn't record at 24/96.

It does too, record at 24/96, when used as an interface. Theoretically at least. I cannot get a usable result on my Core i3, no matter what I try.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I purchased my R24 sometime mid-2011, but I can't put a finger on the exact date. You can search the Zoom R24 forum if you want a sample of the range of issues. In their defense they have sold A LOT of these machines, and the majority of users have no issues. Mine only had problems if I was using multiple mics. Some of the users on the Zoom forum also found it was dependant on the particular mic they were using. I would be willing to bet hard cash that it wasn't your mic that was whining.

Well, now this is potentially annoying. The whole point of getting this unit was to be able to use multiple mics with phantom power.

It is working fine with three Rode mics at once though. Maybe if my R24 is having problems it is specific to certain mics and not all mics. Keeping my fingers crossed.

This is a good argument for buying mics locally from places that accept returns.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

It does too, record at 24/96, when used as an interface. Theoretically at least. I cannot get a usable result on my Core i3, no matter what I try.

No bananas rewarded there. In the example you use your computer is doing the recording, NOT the R24.

The R24 records in either 44.1 / 48khz at 16 or 24 bit depth, that's it. No amount of cajoling will convince it to do otherwise. If you use a USB mic plugged into your computer it is not the mic that is recording, it's still your computer.

I always tell people to take over-inflated claims about the R24's usefulness as a multi-purpose device capable of recording, being used as an audio interface to computer, and DAW control surface with a grain of salt. It is a tremendous tool for capturing 1 to 8 simultanious tracks of high quality audio at 24 bit depth, beyond that you need a bit of luck to match Zoom's claims. Yes, it does do those things, but many users don't enjoy a trouble-free experiance using it as such.

[dannyg1]

Hey Rudy,

I call BS on that last post. If the computer requires an interface to enable multitrack, 24/96, phantom power, whatever, it is the interface doing the recording. Are you really suggesting that what I'm hearing is not the R24's mic pre's, not it's noise floor, not it's bit depth?
Really?

Originally Posted by Rudy4

No bananas rewarded there. In the example you use your computer is doing the recording, NOT the R24.

The R24 records in either 44.1 / 48khz at 16 or 24 bit depth, that's it. No amount of cajoling will convince it to do otherwise. If you use a USB mic plugged into your computer it is not the mic that is recording, it's still your computer.

I always tell people to take over-inflated claims about the R24's usefulness as a multi-purpose device capable of recording, being used as an audio interface to computer, and DAW control surface with a grain of salt. It is a tremendous tool for capturing 1 to 8 simultanious tracks of high quality audio at 24 bit depth, beyond that you need a bit of luck to match Zoom's claims. Yes, it does do those things, but many users don't enjoy a trouble-free experiance using it as such.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

Hey Rudy,

I call BS on that last post. If the computer requires an interface to enable multitrack, 24/96, phantom power, whatever, it is the interface doing the recording. Are you really suggesting that what I'm hearing is not the R24's mic pre's, not it's noise floor, not it's bit depth?
Really?

I never stated that you aren't utilizing the R24's electronics to create the bit stream that is digital audio. Unplug the R24 and play back your audio using ONLY the R24. It isn't there. What did the recording, the R24 or the computer?

I'm not trying to be adversarial here, I just don't want anyone who is not familiar with the digital recording process to be a victim of misinformation. Relating to your original post, if the R24 can record 24/96 then it should be able to do it as a stand-alone recorder. It can't so it isn't.

[dannyg1]

If the computer cant do it without the R24.....

[dannyg1]

And btw, it would only take a firmware update and poof, the R24 could at least attempt 24/96 onboard. The reason it's not there now? Probably the same reason the effects go away above 44.1: The on-board processor isn't powerful enough to render pop free audio in real time, at 24/96.

With that said, the R24 *is* the source of the audio and probably doing most of the processing on-board at 24/96. Just because it can't do it stand alone doesn't mean that it "can't" or "doesn't" and the bone I'm picking with you is in response to your authoritative tone and, btw, the fact that it's you who's spreading the bit of misinformation.

I get that, to you, the R24 is a stand alone recorder. It is not only that, either by design or in functional use. I use it as both a recording interface and a control surface. It works well at both of these tasks.