The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-27-2016, 06:17 PM
llew llew is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Coastal South Carolina
Posts: 13,754
Default LR Baggs Lyric/Anthem?

Quick question to those in the know: Is LR Baggs Lyric the same bridge plate pickup as their Anthem? (without the UST) I have the Lyric in one of my guitars and I'm really not liking the sound plugged straight into a Fishman 100. It may be 'that' guitar as I have a Lyric in another guitar and really like it? I wonder if a possible low battery could cause this? No way to tell without changing it...
__________________
Jim

Dogs Welcome......People Tolerated!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-27-2016, 07:33 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,831
Default

Well, when in doubt ( at all!), change the battery... a good motto with powered pickups!

I have the Anthem SL in both my 6 and 12 string Mark Angus guitars; hd them installed some 5 or 6 years ago now.

I spoke with the main tech at Baggs a year ago and he told me that the Lyric is the SAME as the True-Mic used in the Anthem systems, but that the individual mics are "tested" and the best sounding ones are shunted off to the "Lyric" pile...

I think your Lyric has a switch for different attenuation modes, though, and I don't think that's an option on my Anthem True-Mic. Of course, it could be an installation variable as well...

Hope this helps...
__________________
"He's one of those who knows that life is just a leap of faith.
Spread your arms and hold your breath,
always trust your cape..."

"The Cape" (Guy Clark/Jim Janowsky/Susanna Clark)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-27-2016, 07:52 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llew View Post
Quick question to those in the know: Is LR Baggs Lyric the same bridge plate pickup as their Anthem? (without the UST) I have the Lyric in one of my guitars and I'm really not liking the sound plugged straight into a Fishman 100. It may be 'that' guitar as I have a Lyric in another guitar and really like it? I wonder if a possible low battery could cause this? No way to tell without changing it...
It's my understanding that it's the same mic. However, the difference is that with the Anthem, the tru mic is part of a crossover design where the UST handles certain frequencies and the tru-mic handles the rest. With the lyric, the mic is supposed to amplify all frequencies.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-27-2016, 08:17 PM
llew llew is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Coastal South Carolina
Posts: 13,754
Default

Many thanks! Is there any need of a preamp between the guitar and acoustic amp? The signal is certainly "hot" enough? I suppose it could be an installation issue as well? I will change strings and in the process check out the install and replace the battery.
__________________
Jim

Dogs Welcome......People Tolerated!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-28-2016, 08:30 AM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Posts: 1,362
Default

Llew,

The Lyric can be finicky - it would help to know what you don't like about it and we can offer some thoughts. For example, if you don't like the bass response, that is a common criticism of the Lyric.

A friend of mine had a Lyric in his mighty Collings OM and we got good sound by drastically cutting 1/9'th octave at 200 hz and again somewhere higher (sorry, i don't recall now - maybe 500hz or so?)

that helped remove the boxy sound we were getting. The Lyric sounded really good, but ultimately it didn't have the bass response we wanted.

Also, have you changed the presence trim on the little soundhole preamp? That's a game changer.

As to your most recent question, you shouldn't need to add a preamp, but you'll probably be gaining it up at some point - either on an amp or PA.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-29-2016, 12:42 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,006
Default

Here you can compare the Lyric raw sound (sample N°5) with a DPA microphone (N°4).

https://soundcloud.com/user-88552451...rison-with-dpa

I would say the main difference between the Lyric and the Anthem micing is not the mic but the preamp
* The anthem preamp is basicaly a crossover between two sources. The piezo handling the low frequencies.

See link:
Anthem patent

* The lyric preamp is another beast:
Lyric patent
It has a patent for itself:
It includes a multiband compressor. With two compressors only working on the low end. One in peak detection and the other in RMS mode. Baggs really taylored the low end response (that's why the Lyric is so picky... It is made probably for Martin D28 ord HD28). There is also a compressor in the 2-5kHz range. There is also a bit of Equing. If you want to know, read the patent.

There is a huge low cut.

The Lyric output is not that "hot" compared to other systems I've tried.
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-10-2017, 01:41 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
It's my understanding that it's the same mic. However, the difference is that with the Anthem, the tru mic is part of a crossover design where the UST handles certain frequencies and the tru-mic handles the rest. With the lyric, the mic is supposed to amplify all frequencies.
No this is not correct. The Lyric mic and the Anthem mic are vastly different. Even if you ignore the low end where the Anthem has the UST and the Lyric does not, the mid and high range sounds/feels very different. Now maybe the actual mic is the same or similar with vastly different preamp/EQ/comp, etc... but they sound and feel very different to me.
__________________
'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth
'13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood!
'21 Gretsch 5622
'22 Furch Red Pure G-LR - Barbera Soloist
ST-300 Mini + DIY mic preamp
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-10-2017, 03:08 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Cuki said it well. In my experience, the Lyric was not a great solution for me. It lacked (purposefully) in the low end. This is done to prevent howling feedback issues present with most microphones. Once can try and EQ it, post preamp, to improve the tone. Several of us were very enthusiastic about the Lyric when it came out, SpruceTop being one of them. Many of us have come to the conclusion that the Anthem is a better choice because the low end is provided by the UST. Several users, Doug Young among them, have experimented using the Lyric and a K&K for the low end. It can sound good, but most prefer a different mic to pair with the K&K. The good news is that you are not alone in your response to the Lyric. The bad news, is that it has not worked for many of us, and we've moved on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-10-2017, 03:21 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rschultz View Post
No this is not correct. The Lyric mic and the Anthem mic are vastly different. Even if you ignore the low end where the Anthem has the UST and the Lyric does not, the mid and high range sounds/feels very different. Now maybe the actual mic is the same or similar with vastly different preamp/EQ/comp, etc... but they sound and feel very different to me.
Exactly, the mic itself is the same, it's the preamp that's making the sound different. That's what I meant. Pretty sure Baggs confirmed this.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-10-2017, 03:21 PM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Posts: 1,362
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rschultz View Post
No this is not correct. The Lyric mic and the Anthem mic are vastly different. Even if you ignore the low end where the Anthem has the UST and the Lyric does not, the mid and high range sounds/feels very different. Now maybe the actual mic is the same or similar with vastly different preamp/EQ/comp, etc... but they sound and feel very different to me.
I may be splitting hairs, but I think the actual physical mic is the same, and as you state above, it is the preamp technology that is quite different.

The Lyric has an awful lot of things going for it, but low end response is not one of them
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-14-2017, 07:22 PM
nzmoman1 nzmoman1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 56
Default

I removed a Lyric from one of my guitars after a couple of weeks of not being able to dial it in at shows. I went back to the Pure Mini and I may try another system in the future.

I have not heard a guitar with an Anthem that wasn't good, but I have heard several questionable lyrics. Its just a more sensitive system.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-14-2017, 07:30 PM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 13,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Cuki said it well. In my experience, the Lyric was not a great solution for me. It lacked (purposefully) in the low end. This is done to prevent howling feedback issues present with most microphones. Once can try and EQ it, post preamp, to improve the tone. Several of us were very enthusiastic about the Lyric when it came out, SpruceTop being one of them. Many of us have come to the conclusion that the Anthem is a better choice because the low end is provided by the UST. Several users, Doug Young among them, have experimented using the Lyric and a K&K for the low end. It can sound good, but most prefer a different mic to pair with the K&K. The good news is that you are not alone in your response to the Lyric. The bad news, is that it has not worked for many of us, and we've moved on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I have zero experience with the Lyric, but the Anthem SL with the microphone and UST is a very good system once you get that microphone dialed into your specific guitar.
__________________
Nothing bothers me unless I let it.

Martin D18
Gibson J45
Gibson J15
Fender Copperburst Telecaster
Squier CV 50 Stratocaster
Squier CV 50 Telecaster
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-14-2017, 07:35 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I have zero experience with the Lyric, but the Anthem SL with the microphone and UST is a very good system once you get that microphone dialed into your specific guitar.


Agreed. That seems to be the consensus. The Anthem and Anthem SL seem to work more consistently for people than the Lyric. In some cases, the Lyric can sound superb, but many of us have been disappointed with the tru mic alone.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-14-2017, 08:25 PM
leew3 leew3 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,953
Default

+1 for the Anthem SL here!
__________________
"I go for a lotta things that's a little too strong" J.L. Hooker
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-14-2017, 09:31 PM
Auguy21 Auguy21 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 41
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I have zero experience with the Lyric, but the Anthem SL with the microphone and UST is a very good system once you get that microphone dialed into your specific guitar.
I just played my Anthem SL for the first time live yesterday in my Larrivee OM-40 and after getting the mic dialed in and mixed through my LR Baggs Para DI, I am blown away. Playing with a Gravity Gold 1mm pick and it sounds so natural to my ears.
__________________
Larrivee C-09 Custom
Larrivee OM-40 Walnut Fall Limited
Alvarez AP70W
Fender Custom Shop Classic Strat
Fender '72 Tele Thinline Reissue (Curtis Novak P/U's)
Larrivee LV-03RE (Sold)
Larrivee DV-05E (Sold)
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=