Playing melodies while strumming?

[dragnet99]

I'm trying to learn more about solo acoustic performance (read: not having a backing band of any kind), and keep noticing a trick that such players seem to use, where a melody is mixed in with their chord strumming.

Here's a good example of what I mean (a cover of Elvis Costello's "Blame it on Cain"); I set the link to start the video here at the point I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...f_R4uU_fA#t=49

Just after singing "Blame it on Cain" (the start of the chorus), he mixes a melody/bassline into the chord he's strumming.

What I can't figure out in this video is whether he's still somehow strumming while playing the melody at the same time, or if he stops the strum to pluck out melody notes individually, but it happens so fast that it blurs together.

There are a lot of ways to play basic melodies mid-strum by hammering on and pulling off, with the easiest examples being sus2 and sus4 chords, but this seems like something more complex. I'd like to get a sound like he's got in the video, but it always feels too broken up when I try doing it myself, whereas he manages to get the melody and chords to blend very nicely with one another, as if the melody notes are part of the strumming itself.

Where can I learn more about this? Thanks!

[HHP]

Not really melody, he's playing a short, simple bass run within the chord strums just to mix it up a little. Often runs like this are used to transition from one chord to the next.

One of the best genres to get a foundation in this style is Carter Style. Maybelle Carter would play melody notes in the bass and fill with strums. Listen to Bluegrass players as they will often use runs like the famous Lester Flatt G Run to fill in and provide some variety to the sound.

[JanVigne]

Would a walking bass line do what you want?

http://www.bing.com/search?q=how%20t...7&ShowAppsUI=1

[Monk of Funk]

For strumming I find the best way to be able to pick out notes like that is all in the muting. Either muting with the left hand, or the right hand, or both.

But I find that if you really want to get into just playing guitar and throwing in melodies and stuff like that, then you'll want to drop your pick, and go open hand, where you can still strum and mute like that, but you also have way more flexibility to pick out notes with your fingers.

Imo, you can do a lot more with fingerpicking. But there's some stuff you can't do as well still.

[dragnet99]

Originally Posted by HHP

Not really melody, he's playing a short, simple bass run within the chord strums just to mix it up a little. Often runs like this are used to transition from one chord to the next.

One of the best genres to get a foundation in this style is Carter Style. Maybelle Carter would play melody notes in the bass and fill with strums. Listen to Bluegrass players as they will often use runs like the famous Lester Flatt G Run to fill in and provide some variety to the sound.

Right, I think where I'm getting stuck is on the actual execution. Can you tell, for instance in the video I posted, if the technique is to strum, pluck a note in the bass run, strum again, etc., or if he's strumming consistently the whole time? And if it's the latter, what's he doing to give the isolated note such clarity?

[JohnnyDes]

I think he's either strumming or picking the individual base notes. Keep a close eye on his picking hand.

JD

[wcap]

I'll take a stab at answering this.

When doing strumming I think it is best to have the mind set that you are strumming with a consistent up and down pattern from start to finish. (In that youtube video (which I think is great by the way!) you can see that he is even sort of continuing the up and down strum movement even when the guitar is silent.) Downbeats will always be strummed, say, with a downstroke, upbeats will always be strummed with an upstroke, etc.

Once you have that up and down pattern fixed in your head and arm/hand, then you can modify things a bit by either not making contact with the strings for parts of the strum cycles, or by substituting single notes (for example) for parts of that strum cycle. For example, you might sometimes only strum the downbeats, or sometimes only the upbeats, or you could have all sorts of different patterns like this. Or rather than strumming a downbeat you might substitute in a bass note, or maybe a series of bass notes on successive down and up beats.

But all throughout this you are maintaining the same up and down movements, so that the rhythm stays smooth and steady, and so your hand is in the right place at the right time when you want to throw in a stroke where you make contact with the strings for a strum.

I think these are mostly the sorts of things he is doing in that video.

Does this make sense?

Also, on a strummed stroke, you can often modify the chords or how you strum them to emphasize melody notes, or harmony lines, or whatever. In some cases rather than strumming the entire chord you might just strum 2 or 3 strings of that chord, which might give you a melody note on the bottom or the top. Depending on the key you are in (some keys work much better than others), and the situation, you can often truncate a strum early (before playing the highest strings) to end on a melody note, so here in one stroke you get the strummed chord along with the melody note on top.

If you want another example, here is one of my family's recordings where I strum, including a bass line on the first time through, then the melody (primarily on the top ends of the strums) the second time through (then flatpicking the third time).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fG3VtZd3ts

This piece is in 3/4 time, so envision the basic strum in each measure as being down up down up down up. Or we could say, 123456, with odd numbered beats being downstrokes and even numbered beats being upstrokes.

The first time through the melody I substitute in single notes for some of those strumming strokes. At the beginning, for example, I am playing a bass note on 1, then 2 is silent (but my hand is moving slightly almost as though I'm doing an upstroke - I'm just not touching the strings), and then 3, 4, 5, and 6 are normal down up down up strum strokes with contact with the strings. To get the bass notes in where I want them later on, I substitute them in for various upward or downward strum strokes in the 123456 lineup within the measure, sometimes putting in silent down or up strokes as well. And there is some hammering on with some bass notes too.

The second time through the piece where I am playing the melody is mostly a little different. Here I am generally stopping my strum on a melody note, not playing all the strings, and sometimes not starting the strum on the lowest string either. And in some cases I'm altering the left hand fingerings of the chords just a bit so that the melody note I want will be there where I want it. There are also some runs of flatpicked notes in here in places. But in all cases, the idea is that I'm keeping the down and up strumming pattern going with my right hand (e.g., even in runs of notes, melody notes on 1,3,or 5 are normally being played with downstrokes, melody notes on 2,4,or 6 are normally played with upstrokes), so that when there is a gap in the melody my right hand can slip right back into the strum pattern and fill in the gaps with strums, if desired.

Given that I don't have a guitar in my hands at the moment I might be getting some of the details of what I am doing in that recording slightly wrong, but I think I've laid out the basic principles reasonably well.

Does this all sort of make sense?

I think this all might sound a lot more complicated than it actually is - I wish I could just show you in person!

[wcap]

(An amusing off-topic note: Recently I posted a thread entitled "3000 posts, but probably only about 20 things to say!", or something like that. I'm realizing that though much of what I type here on this forum is a more or less a repetition of other things I have typed in the past, I think my comment above is a first timer in terms of its content!)

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Monk of Funk

.....

But I find that if you really want to get into just playing guitar and throwing in melodies and stuff like that, then you'll want to drop your pick, and go open hand, where you can still strum and mute like that, but you also have way more flexibility to pick out notes with your fingers.

Imo, you can do a lot more with fingerpicking. But there's some stuff you can't do as well still.

As someone who plays fingerstyle probably 90% of the time, I'll agree with you that there is a lot one can do with the fingers.

But good strumming/melody playing with a flatpick can give an amazingly wonderful sound that you just don't get with fingers. It can give a powerful clarity and energy that can be just fabulous. The best flatpickers I have met have had almost the same level of intricacy in their playing as a fingerstyle player, but with a wonderful something extra rhythmically and tonally that is just perfect in some contexts. I don't do much flatpicking or strumming, but I have seen the light and have come to admire good flatpicking and strumming greatly.

I kind of think that flatpicking/strumming on guitar is to fingerstyle as clawhammer style banjo is to Scruggs style or melodic style banjo. In both flatpicking/strumming and clawhammer you sort of are working with less to start with, but once you work in the details of melodies and such the end result has a wonderful rhythmic quality that is different from most fingerstyle guitar or Scruggs style banjo.

[wcap]

And dragnet99....

I see you are fairly new here. Welcome to the forum!

EDIT: Oops, fairly new in terms of posts, but I see you have been here since May. Well, a belated welcome anyway!

[Special B]

Learn a variety of suspended chords (aka sus chords) and some jazz guitar chord voicings (dom7, maj7, min7, 6, augmented etc..). Also learn how to play common inverted chords (where a note other than the root is the lowest note).

Think of chord melodies like playing a normal chord with an extra note (not normally in the chord) in it. That extra note is the melody. You can write a chord progression, and then also write a melody, and just impose that melody into your chords. Of course, just make sure the melody and chords are in the same position on the fretboard.

When writing a chord melody, not every chord needs 4 notes. You can still use triads, but tetrachords (4-note chords) will be very useful. The triads will usually be your resolutions (ending a phrase).

A lot of chord melodies simply alternate between a suspended chord (like sus2 or sus4), and a standard triad, then move to a new chord. This may be a good place to start.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by dragnet99

What I can't figure out in this video is whether he's still somehow strumming while playing the melody at the same time, or if he stops the strum to pluck out melody notes individually, but it happens so fast that it blurs together.

The three bass notes are played on the beat with downward pick movements. In between these he strums up on the bits of the chord held down by the second, third and fourth fingers. You only need to catch one or two of those notes for it to work.

[RodB]

Originally Posted by dragnet99

... Can you tell, for instance in the video I posted, if the technique is to strum, pluck a note in the bass run, strum again, etc., or if he's strumming consistently the whole time?

I agree with the following posts. Best not to over think it - and keep a relaxed, steady, right hand motion.

Originally Posted by HHP

Not really melody, he's playing a short, simple bass run within the chord strums just to mix it up a little....

Originally Posted by JohnnyDes

I think he's either strumming or picking the individual base notes. Keep a close eye on his picking hand.

[Yeah]

you should check out the decemberists acoustic songs or nick drake songs, those guys tend to do that a lot. I recommend bare hand strumming (it´s imperative to combine strumming with fingerstyle) and learning trough imitating people that does that.

You can play a lot with adding taking of fingers like sus or sus 4 in the A and D chords fore example.

Also you can do "passing" melodies. For example if you switch from Am to C try hitting the bass notes in the 5th string to make a short A B C progression (frets 0 2 and 3 of the fifth). Those little "arrangements always sound nice and add "complexity" to your solo strumming.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by Yeah

....it´s imperative to combine strumming with fingerstyle.....

Why? One can work in melody notes while strumming with a flat pick.

Fingerstyle-strumming combinations are great too (and is a lot of what I do), but this approach gives a different end result.

With a flat pick you can get the melody notes and bass notes to sound out with wonderful strength and clarity that most folks will not achieve without a pick.