thumb-wrapping discomfort?

[bozz_2006]

Hi folks,

I've been a committed player for a little over three years. I've learned a lot but am still trying to figure out the things that definitely do and definitely don't work for me.

I've been struggling a bit to figure out if wrapping my thumb over the sixth string is something i can do. I haven't been able to do it. I have very large palms but short-ish fingers. I try to wrap my thumb but struggle to get a clean "fret". and It makes my thumb sore when i try.

Any tips? I mean, maybe your tip is "give it up. you'll never get it. clearly you're a two-bit hack." That's fine. Trying to decide if i should keep working on it or just move on to more fertile grounds.

Thanks, all.

[Bern]

Try to play the F# on the low E with the standard open D chord. Incorporate that in your playing until you get used to it.

[atomicdog]

The thumb thing can be tough (I'm guilty). It's bad for technique, for sure, and for health of your hand. You can work on correct thumb position (with the thumb tip on the back of the neck but not too firm), and you can try playing a soft V-shape neck, which can force you to not wrap. I'm open for tips.

[bobby b]

Try it out for a while if it doesn't feel right then it prob aint the thing for ya.

Works fine for Sir Paul.....

http://youtu.be/OFx-MEQ268A

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by bozz_2006

...Any tips? I mean, maybe your tip is "give it up. you'll never get it. clearly you're a two-bit hack." That's fine. Trying to decide if i should keep working on it or just move on to more fertile grounds.

Hi bozz...

Medium chunky hands here, and not blessed with a long thumb. I can wrap chords like the D/F#.

I have been playing for nearly 50 years, and cannot thumb wrap in place of a barre chord. So I just play barres.

[Blueser100]

I struggle with this too and for me it is easier on a guitar with long scale (more string tension) vs short scale. Here is my tip: you don't have to strain to wrap the thumb over in any substantial way. Try to see if you can just "hook" enough of the thumb to make a clear note. Experiment with thumb placement, even the slightest adjustment can make a big difference.

[JonPR]

There's very rarely any need to fret with the thumb (except to avoid barre chords ). But muting the 6th is a common requirement (for strumming the common open C, A or D chords) - so as long as the thumb can reach to touch the 6th, you're good.

For any chord where you need to fret the 6th, practice other fingerings, in particular the standard barre shapes. (Even for the common D/F#, that's playable with 4 fingers.)

Remember, in classical guitar the thumb should never emerge above the top of the neck, let alone wrap over it. And yet classical players seem to manage OK...
It's only the narrower necks of steel-string guitars that allow the thumb to come over, encouraging various non-classical fingering techniques.

[deltoid]

I experience soreness in my thumb when doing a lot of thumb wrapping. I have a Larrivee OM-05 that has a thin neck in terms of radius and the problem is more pronounced on that guitar. I'm wondering if a guitar with a chunkier (thicker) neck would be more conducive to thumb wrapping. I also have a couple Taylor guitars that have a slightly larger neck radius and the problem isn't as bad, and if I don't do it too much, I'm ok.

I was watching a YT lesson by Stefan Grossman, he was giving a lesson that involved a thumb wrap. He said he has never met anyone that wasn't able to do it, given enough practice. However, don't over do it, it's the repetitive stress that is causing the soreness. If practicing it for just a few minutes causes soreness, then maybe the anatomy of your hand just wasn't made for it.

[JanVigne]

Certainly neck profile and width are factors in how easily you can wrap a thumb. More so, I'd say, than even the physical size of your hand or the length of your thumb. Unless we are rather highly skilled players with certain definitive check lists for our instruments, we tend to focus on how the guitar sounds overall and pay less attention to how it plays under specific conditions. Therefore, you may have purchased a guitar that actually makes the thumb over technique more difficult for your hands. If you can find a shop or show where numerous neck profiles can be auditioned, you might find it to be far easier with some than others.

I certainly wouldn't stress over this small detail of playing. Practice will generally provide the ability to do some fretting with your thumb but most of us will never approach the flexibility of, say, Merle Travis in this aspect.

Consider the benefits of using the thumb over the neck. If you're primarily a strummer, they are, IMO, far less than for the fingerpicker. Barres fit better for most simple chords than does the thumb. Using open strings up the neck can be a benefit of the thumb over technique where a barre would not allow an open fourth string to ring out. In fingerstyle playing, embellishments are the primary benefit of a thumb over technique. Yet, as with any physical limitation, there are almost always work arounds for any situation if you simply think them out. If you don't play fingerstyle however and you don't use open strings in your up the neck chords, other than simply muting the sixth string as Jon suggests, there's probably no need to work at something that has so few benefits to your playing.

But try a few different guitars first. I have a '96 Martin dreadnought that makes it more difficult to play with a thumb over style. Yet my old '60's Stella with a baseball bat neck and shorter scale is far easier on my hands when I wrap around. My personal experience is the deeper V necks found on some guitars have also proven to be easier for this style of play than the more common "C" rounding found on my '96 Martin. Wider widths at the nut have consistently been more favorable to using my thumb. But I don't have your hands so you'll need to experiment to find what works best for you.

And, in the end, if it doesn't work for you, think about how to achieve the desired results in another manner. It's part of what makes the guitar so fascinating, it always should keep you thinking.

[Fatfingerjohn]

Like you my fingers are relatively short compared to quite large hands; also not much flex. However, I have never cracked barre chords, not through want of trying, but cannot do them.

When I first tried thumb wrapping I had your problem; could quite reach and it hurt. I think I even ended up with flaky skin on the webbing of my thumb through overstretching. But, surprisingly, after persevering for many months the webbing finally stretched enough for me to do a thumb wrapped F and now can go up to 4th fret OK.

I'm sure it also depends on the neck profile of the guitar you're playing and the nut width.

Whilst I agree with others who say don't worry if you can't do it (and bad technique etc), if, like me you just can't do barre chords, then this is very restricting and the thumb wrap is worth cracking if you can; doesn't solve all the problems of no barre of course but helps.

FFJ

[bozz_2006]

Oh, I'm definitely comfy muting the low E string on open A and D chords. That's no problem. Mainly, I'm wondering about fretting the low E string for full "cheater" bar chords. When I'm doing vocal accompaniment for songs in "C", I get lazy and do a "cheater" "open" F - strings 1 and 2 fretted at first fret, string 3 fretted at second fret, strings 4 and 5 at third fret. And it would be oh-so-convenient if I could wrap my thumb to fret sting 6 at first fret. Proper? Of course not, but it sure would make transitioning in and out of the F chord quick and clean. It's quick and clean the way I do it now, but I don't get the low rumble of that low E string.

It's not a "must-have", and like i said, I do have large palms but I have pretty short thumbs. Maybe it's just not for me. Maybe I should just do real, true, big boy barre chords. That's fine too; i'm good enough where that's not a big problem. But if I could transition between open C, open G, and a "cheater" F with all six strings ringing, that would be nice :-)

[bozz_2006]

For reference (not sure if it adds much, but figured I'd add it either way)

I too, have been playing for 50 years. I've been a thumb wrapper every second of it and can even get the 5th string to barre the Am form. Never any pain or difficulty. I can easily switch from using wrap-barres to straight-barres as the situation requires.

I do wonder about the assertion that wrapping can be damaging to the hand, as it is a grasping motion for which the hand was exquisitely designed. The "proper" method of placing the thumb on the back of the neck (which I employ as well) is more of a pinching motion which seems to me to be more stressful.

I'm curious if anyone is aware of any non-anecdotal, definitive scientific studies that would point in one direction or the other. It wouldn't cause me to change anything I do; I'm just,as I said, curious.

[stanron]

I use the thumb for fretting some sixth string notes. In it's time and place it is useful as a fifth fretting digit. It is true that in classical guitar they can get by using only four fretting digits but I like to have the fifth as well.

If your playing position tends towards a horizontal neck (not ideal but it is quite common) then the thumb over the sixth string is easier than barre chords. I play standing up as much as possible with the neck at 45 degrees but still prefer not using barre chords because of the way they tie up too many fingers.

The part of the thumb that holds down the string is not the same part used by other fingers. My thumb sits upright besides the neck and when I bend it, no more than about 5 degrees these days, a little flap of skin sticks out above the neck and I use this to hold down the string. The bit between the nail and the knuckle is nowhere near the string. It's waving about in the air.

Hope this helps.

[YamaYairi]

Your thumb is pretty short. I think you're going to have a problem with thumb over technique. My advice, when you go to grab a thumb note, rotate your hand more to the back of the neck and move your elbow back to help you out, and try to just get a piece of the low E string. Don't worry if it isn't clean sounding, a little thud is kind of traditional sounding anyway.