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#1
10-27-2013, 09:40 AM
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Modes made easier. Sounding the way you want without learning dozens of scales.
 I used to do a LOT of studio work on Long Island, NJ and NYC. All the good players had and endless list of shortcuts that worked. Theory? Well, maybe but when it came down to it you better be playing for your life with as little prep or thought as possible. It would help to know your intervals but you don't even need to know them to apply this technique. Here's an easier way to learn and use the modes of the major scale. First off learn 5 forms of the major scale all along the neck and be able to play them in any key. Each one has a root note in it and their all movable. If you already know where the notes are on your guitar this shouldn't take very long at all. You can get this stuff out of any good guitar instructional book. Here's where the fun comes in. Somebody tells you 'I want some of that minor sound.. you know, like Randy Rhoads or the Allman Brothers. Or they say... 'I want that Santana sound'.. or 'Give me that 'Jerry Garcia, Hippie sound.' My favorite... 'Can you play some jazzy, lounge stuff? Once you get the hang of this it's very easy. Getting the hang of it is a LOT easier then thinking you're going to have to learn 144 different scale patterns all along the neck. 2. Here's your cheat chart. We'll be using the C major scale for all of these examples. Once you learn this you can apply any major scale depending on the key. Hang in there and you'll see what I mean. So when somebody says: Gimme a jazzy, lounge sound = same key. The chords behind you are Cmaj7, Fmaj7... ect.. .all in the key of C. You play your C scale. This is the Ionian mode. Gimme that Santana, Allman Brothers, Randy Rhoads sound = go back 2 frets from the key you're in. Say the key is Dm. Think D note. Go down 2 frets and that's your C note. Now play the C scale against that Dm chord. That's The tonal center is that D note so you'll want to hang around it but just use that C scale. This is called the Dorian mode Gimme that Spanish sound = go back 4 frets from the key note: Say the key is Em. Find your E note and count 7 frets back and you wind up with your C note again. Strum the Em chord and then use your C scale. Again. Really. Hang around the E note. This is the Phrygian mode Gimme that hippie, psychedelic sound = go up 7 frets from the key note. Let's say the song is in the key of F and the chord progression is F to G and back and forth... a common 'hippie' sounding progression. Go up 7 frets from your F note and wha-la, your back at that C note. Play the C scale against that progression and break out the lava lamp. This is the Lydian mode Gimme more of that hippie, Garcia sound, but make it more bluesy Another mode to use while wearing bell bottoms. = go up 5 frets from the key you're in. Say the key is G and the progression is something like G - F - C - G. Count 5 frets up from that G note and there's your C scale again. Play it against that progression centering around your key note (G) and dig it man. This is your Mixolydian mode. Gimme a really dark, moody, minor sound = go up 3 frets from the key. Progression is Am - G - F - Em in the key of A. Up three frets will give you C. Play that C scale over that progression. This is your Aeolian mode. Gimme a bizzare jazzy sound = 1 fret up from the key. Usually this is a good one to play over a diminished chord. B dim7 - play the C scale. Locrian mode Notice in these examples I'm using the C major scale all the time but in the real world you may wind up using all or some of the others. The key to this is that once you learn 5 forms of playing your major scale and playing that in all 12 keys you're just one step away from being able to make the next transition. Some extra examples: The chords are Am to G, the key is Am so your key note is A. You want that Santana sound. Look at that 2nd example count back two frets, but this time from your A note because you're in the key of Am. This is your G note. Play the G major scale over that progression and you're really playing that Dorian mode. The chord progression is Amaj7, Dmaj7, Bm7, E7 to Amaj7 and you want to sound jazzy. Your key is A. Look at the first example. You'll be using your A major scales. Ionian mode Summing up: yes, it's to your advantage to learn your intervals, some chord theory and music theory which will always help. But if you want a fast way of sounding the way you need to sound then try out this lesson. If you have any questions at all or additional tips feel free to post away.
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Fingerpicking Acoustic Blues/Rag/Folk/Slide Lessons https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/ Last edited by Glennwillow; 11-22-2013 at 07:53 AM. 
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#3
10-27-2013, 12:17 PM
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Toby;
This is a good way to look at "the modes", and very close to the way it was taught to me, back in the '70's... The whole idea of the modes of the Diatonic major scale seems to confuse so many players, and the concept that all the modes are contained within the notes of the major scale really simplifies things... I'd add: When playing single-note lines, try to focus on the intervals that are half-steps, or on adjacent frets... these are frequently where those "juicy" tones are! Try to 'stretch out" your lines, playing longer strings of notes... if you normally just play 3 or 4 notes in a phrase, work on extending those 3 or 4 notes to 6,7 or 8 note sequences... longer as you get the hang of it. Think/feel as though you are developing a statement or idea, then keep that going! Jazz players are really good at this; they'll create a sonic "picture", and then continue "painting it" throughout their solo... Learn to s p r e a d your intervals! Rarely is playing a scale going to get you where you want to go... stretching out your intervals (the distance between two notes) develops interest and can help you to "break out" of the ruts of playing scales... Try to sing your lines, at least in your head (you don't have to go all Keith Jarrett on it!)... listen for what you "hear" inside of yourself, as it relates to a piece of music or tune, then play that! At first, you might have to play the note, THEN sing along... but after a fashion, you'll hear it inside first and then play it... this helps develop a more "conversational" sense in solo playing... All of this "stuff" is designed to help one express more fully through their instrument, express what you feel about a tune... ALWAYS "default" to what feels right, to you, as you play... Good thread! Thanks for posting your thoughts on this... although I suspect that some of the 'purists" will have issues... play on................................................ > John Seth Sherman
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"Home is where I hang my hat, but home is so much more than that. Home is where the ones and the things I hold dear are near... And I always find my way back home." "Home" (working title) J.S, Sherman
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#4
10-27-2013, 01:11 PM
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Great stuff Toby.
I posted a little video regarding my way of thinking about scales (modes) a year or so ago http://youtu.be/fU9ygo81vOc Might also be interesting for those thinking about modes this morning 
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#5
10-27-2013, 01:52 PM
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While this stuff "works" kind of, I still suggest actually learning the modes' characteristic pitches/intervals and how they DIFFER from the major scale if you're ever really going to understand them.
I'd also argue there's nothing inherently jazzy sounding about the ionian mode...the major scale...and you want to make that G a G# if you really want that "spanish" tinge (phrygian dominant) It's a little more work, but I think it's worth it.
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#6
10-27-2013, 02:42 PM
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And the problem with the C-major-with-a-D-center thinking is that it gets really complicated. In C major, F is my 4th. When I want that tone, I know where to find it. But if I'm in D Dorian, my 4th is G - and that tone is going to feel like a 4th even though now it's in the place where I'm using to thinking I get the 5th. If you learn your scales not JUST as shapes, but also learning where each scale degree is, then it's much easier to think "Oh, Dorian, minor except the six is raised a semitone."
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#7
10-27-2013, 04:10 PM
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I have always approached modes in terms of tonal characteristics, not as shapes or positions on a fret board. Practicing modal scale forms is great for the hands and learning fingering positions, but when it comes to playing, your ear is your greatest asset (imo)
Knowing the concept of modes, how they are created / used, is a very handy musical tool to have at your side. Then again, just another opinion
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#8
10-27-2013, 08:55 PM
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Great replies, interesting thoughts and approaches.
For me the 'C major with a D center thinking isn't complicated at all. I use it all the time an personally speaking it just works better for me. Maybe it's the way I'm wired. I use the term 'jazzy' for Ionian only because a producer once suggested to me that he wanted a 'jazzy, lounge' type sound. I started playing a little maj7 arppegio around that mode and his smile reflected my paycheck for that day. It worked. No... it's not 'Donna Lee' by any stretch of the imagination but they're going to hire the hot jazz guy for that stuff anyway. The job at the time that I was hired was for I believe a T.V. commercial. What I played worked. The producer was happy, I got paid and more importantly got more work as a result. Was I trying to be the next Pat Martino? Obviously not and quite frankly that sort of thing didn't interest me. What interested me was being able to pay my bills at the time by playing the guitar and doing this kind of studio work did just that. This approach to modes is nothing new. It works (not 'kind of works' but it really works) because of it's simplicity and is a practical solution for the player who needs to get by with a doable sound. In a studio situation or if the orchestra is on a tight rehearsal schedule this approach is as practical and useful as a Swiss army knife. You want to use a Wusthof knife? Be my guest. I never said it was the most complete way to learn the modes, to train your ear or become a theoretical music professor. For me however it was the quickest way as a guitarist to get the job done, make the producer happy and go home with a paycheck.
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Fingerpicking Acoustic Blues/Rag/Folk/Slide Lessons https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/ Last edited by Toby Walker; 10-27-2013 at 09:02 PM.
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#9
10-28-2013, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
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(I'll admit to being envious of having such easy work available...  )
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
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#10
10-28-2013, 07:27 AM
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In 99% of the studio work I encountered there were always charted, written music. Some of those also called for a particular improvised part in the beginning, middle or end which is where this technique came in handy. Sometimes the work was easy but just as often given the unpredictability it was challenging as well.
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Fingerpicking Acoustic Blues/Rag/Folk/Slide Lessons https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/
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#11
10-28-2013, 08:27 AM
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(But then I am getting quite old now...  )
__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
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#12
10-28-2013, 08:58 AM
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"Great replies, interesting thoughts and approaches.
For me the 'C major with a D center thinking isn't complicated at all. I use it all the time an personally speaking it just works better for me. Maybe it's the way I'm wired. I use the term 'jazzy' for Ionian only because a producer once suggested to me that he wanted a 'jazzy, lounge' type sound. I started playing a little maj7 arppegio around that mode and his smile reflected my paycheck for that day. It worked. No... it's not 'Donna Lee' by any stretch of the imagination but they're going to hire the hot jazz guy for that stuff anyway. The job at the time that I was hired was for I believe a T.V. commercial. What I played worked. The producer was happy, I got paid and more importantly got more work as a result. Was I trying to be the next Pat Martino? Obviously not and quite frankly that sort of thing didn't interest me. What interested me was being able to pay my bills at the time by playing the guitar and doing this kind of studio work did just that. This approach to modes is nothing new. It works (not 'kind of works' but it really works) because of it's simplicity and is a practical solution for the player who needs to get by with a doable sound. In a studio situation or if the orchestra is on a tight rehearsal schedule this approach is as practical and useful as a Swiss army knife. You want to use a Wusthof knife? Be my guest. I never said it was the most complete way to learn the modes, to train your ear or become a theoretical music professor. For me however it was the quickest way as a guitarist to get the job done, make the producer happy and go home with a paycheck." I would say some folks have not read the title to the thread. Great reference to the Wusthof knife! Was that knife sharpened in the traditional Japanese style of knife making? By the fellow who makes his living travelling from town to town sharpening and honing knives for the well to do? Or, did the poor schlub settle for that oh so passe 15 degree angle? Some folks play like Martha Stewart cooks. Remember when she did Xmas specials and she would walk you out into her garden? She'd show you the trees she planted on the land she cleared after she had purchased hundreds of acres from a family with roots to the Mayflower who had lived on the farm since the 17th century. She would pick just the ever so ripe heritage apples which she had tended with special care once she spotted them in early August. Pollinated by her own bees which she kept in her rebuilt barn from the 18th century. (She cut and dried the lumber herself. Made the nails and hardware on her own forge too!) She'd wash the vegetables in water from her own private stream - with a waterwheel - and use special tools my mother would have never heard of. The whipped cream for her fresh from the garden pumpkin pie - the pumpkin was picked (after careful consideration of the perfect pumpkin) just that morning! - was taken just moments ago from one of her own specially grain fed cows and separated so she could churn her own butter later. She had made her own decorations from paper pulp she had made herself from the scrap lumber recovered from the barn. Woven her own tableclothes from wool she had shorn from her own sheep complete with dyes she had made herself from plants and roots she had harvested and ground herself. And, if you wanted to cook like Martha and have your holiday table look like Martha's, you bought into all of that stuff Martha told you. Most of us just wanted to get dinner on the table and not choke our guests. I picked up a new client a few weeks ago. She has no job other than her home and confesses she is busy as can be though she doesn't really know with what. When I spoke with her in the middle of October, she already had Halloween and Thanksgiving decorations up along with the generic "It's Autumn!" stuff generously placed throughout her yard. She was afraid she might not have time to get to the guest house until the next week because she was so busy with so many other things that needed doing. This is not a real world situation. I'm working and I'll buy candy for Halloween when it goes on sale the weekend before Halloween. Take whatever's left by the time I get to the store. I'll probably be working on Thanksgiving so I'll get a quick sandwich on the run at one of the shops that makes their employees work on holidays. It's how a lot of people pay the bills. It's also, IMO, how a lot of people play guitar - in the real world, to pay their bills or to just enjoy themselves. Not to make this a life study program. To be honest, I know a little less than diddly about modes. I get the heebie jeebies when I read an article about how Blind Lemon Jefferson drew a passing tone from the Dorian mode to lead into a refrain made up primarily from the Mixolydian mode. I suspect Jefferson played the notes he played because he thought they sounded good together, no other reason. That's pretty much how I play. I'm not thinking modes and theory when I play. I play what sounds good and don't concern myself with much else. If I wanted something "jazzy" or "country" thrown in a certain passage, in the future I'll refer to Toby's Cliff Notes version of all of this. It looks to be a quick study into a method of achieving end results without year's of study. For the non-music majors in the audience, it'll probably do just fine. Maybe it'll work, maybe not. I haven't had the time to give it a try yet. No one, certainly not Toby, said it was the final word in music theory. Read the title to the thread.
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#13
10-28-2013, 09:17 AM
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I did read the title to the thread...and I just need more to sound like I want.
I maintain this thinking "kind of" works. The harmony is as important as what you're playing...Toby hints at this, but it's very important. The quintessential "Grateful Dead" jam is a mixolydian thing, usually involving a I major chord and a bVII major chord. And yes, if you noodle some mixolydian over this, you'll be transported to the Fillmore rather quickly! But it's those chords underneath that make the scale sound good...mixolydian over the wrong progression will sound like a bad trip I understand this is the way some guitar players think, and a lot of folks are "in it for fun" and that's cool...personally, I think knowing what I'm doing is fun... If you write out the modes you can see exactly what tensions and extensions they include...this can give you context you can use them in for MANY situations... Also, remember, every scale has "modes." And the modes of the major scale are just the tip of the iceberg (and often not the most interesting!) For example, that Phrygian Dominant I was talking about... I don't think you have to learn dozens of scales...but I do think it benefits the player to know what's unique about them...that's when you can use them freely outside of "canned" situations...to me, THAT's fun.
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#14
10-28-2013, 09:48 AM
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Noodling mixolydian over it is therefore diatonic, "inside". You're using the chord tones. (The missing scale note is the 6th: pretty intuitive to add, unless you want to try 5th mode melodic minor  ).Quote:
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__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
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#15
10-28-2013, 10:08 AM
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"The quintessential "Grateful Dead" jam is a mixolydian thing, usually involving a I major chord and a bVII major chord. And yes, if you noodle some mixolydian over this, you'll be transported to the Fillmore rather quickly! But it's those chords underneath that make the scale sound good...mixolydian over the wrong progression will sound like a bad trip"
IMO, Mr. Weir and Mr. Garcia were musical geniuses, along with the rest of the band. I, unfortunately, am not. I know diddly about modes but can enjoy the Dead's music without deconstructing it into its particle bits. Sort of like watching "America's Test Kitchen" or Alton Brown or just going out into the kitchen to make a dinner which tastes above what comes from a box. In the latter case, a few general principles of cooking and pairing components goes a long way IMO. I do not require "America's Test Kitchen's" breakdown of chemical components in the baking process. And watching the show takes away all of the consideration I put into my meals. I read their recipes and I see people - like a friend - who tediously takes a knife to level off 1/8 teaspoon of salt. Me? I taste what I'm cooking and go from what I have in the pot. No doubt many of the DeadHeads were taken by the band's ability to create on a highly technical level. Many did not care about the Mixolydian mode or whether Jerry slipped into Phrygian Dominant for a few notes. And for those of us who did not, hearing those of you who do explain it to us takes away much of the joy of listening to an experience which transcends the level of complexity found in a Matchbox 20 song. For me, a long time Dead fan, I'm not listening to the band to learn how to play. I'm listening because I enjoy the music just as I listen to Shostakovich without overlaying the many social and political motives which exist under the creation of the works. Shostakovich himself claimed not to be working under the rigidity of rules imposed by socialist communism in his music. Why should I? He did not say he was not aware of those rules and the reaction to fellow artists who ignored them. Those people who write about his personal response to Stalinism are, IMO, mostly making friends with their own fist. As you may have seen, Lou Reed died yesterday. Recently, I was having as much of a conversation as possible with my neighbor's 18 year old son. His father is a former working musician who now has a "real job". The son has just come from a year at the University of North Texas in Denton. Well known for their music program, students from UNT often play in the internationally known North Texas One O'Clock Lab Band; http://www.90thfloorrecords.com/album_lab-band.htm Bill's father admits the music his son turns out is barely listenable to most folks. Bill's opinion is he is not interested in his audience, he is doing his art and art is all that matters. I have two degrees in Theatre Arts and I've been with these sorts of artists up close and personal on more than one occasion. During our conversation - of sorts - I asked Bill if he ever listened to Reed and The Velvet Underground. "Yeah, but they're too simple for me." He did later admit simplicity was at the core of Reed as a rocker and an influence on every band that came after him. ''They're too simple for me" is, IMO, like saying, "I don't get into John Lee Hooker because he only plays one chord." I have nothing against anyone understanding their profession or even their pastime to a greater extent than average. I fall into that category with one of my hobbies which was also my profession for decades. I understand aspects of the hobby which most people don't even consider. I do not, however, think everyone should understand what I know. I respond when asked but hold my piece when not asked. Hurrah!!! for everyone who enjoys what they do. The world needs more of them. But just as we cannot all be in the top 1% of anything, most of us aren't going to listen or play while trying to be in that top 1%. If you enjoy what you do, fine. If I enjoy how I create music, what's the problem? What I play and how I play it depends little on understanding fully the ins and outs of modes. If what you play does rely on an intimate knowledge of theory, how does that affect me? If, in the case of a producer, they are satisfied with the results of Toby's work, what more is there to ask? Should Toby have explained to the producer that what he was playing wasn't really "jazzy" according to music theory? Last edited by JanVigne; 10-28-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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