Guild In The Post-Fender Era

[Gabby84]

Originally Posted by FLRon

While a great read, the article is nearly 10 years old. How much more has changed with Guild in the past decade tht couldn't be addressed in the article?
I like Guild guitars,and hope to have a sunburst model one day. I owned a Richie Havens model D-40 at one time that was not at all impressive. Still, I do like the older Guilds, and especially the 12 strings. Guild wrote the book on the 12 string guitar, in my opinion.

Hi Ron, I agree, an update would be great. Cordoba has done an excellent job with the offshore Guilds. A few seem to be up to GAD!

I own a 2018 Guild M20, Oxnard. it is an amazing sounding little guitar, so much so that a few friends (who are professional players and own/play old Guilds, Martins, Gibsons and custom made guitars), will ask to play it when we get together for a song or two. The comment I keep hearing is: "what an amazing voice for such a small bodied guitar."

[valleyguy]

Amazingly, that article made no reference to Ren Ferguson, Guild's master luthier who followed the production through New Hartford and was instrumental in keeping the Guild sound. From all the old-time Guild lovers, he was the key to keeping the magic alive through the moves.

[1Charlie]

Originally Posted by valleyguy

Amazingly, that article made no reference to Ren Ferguson, Guild's master luthier who followed the production through New Hartford and was instrumental in keeping the Guild sound. From all the old-time Guild lovers, he was the key to keeping the magic alive through the moves.

Ren did not join Guild until well after the move to New Hartford in 2009-10. This article came out before his arrival.

His major design contribution was in the custom shop, specifically the Orpheum series.

[srick]

Originally Posted by 1Charlie

Ren did not join Guild until well after the move to New Hartford in 2009-10. This article came out before his arrival.

His major design contribution was in the custom shop, specifically the Orpheum series.

Ren was instrumental in increasing the efficiencies of the Guild production floor. During his time in New Hartford, the footprint of the production floor was reduced from four floors to two - and they produced more guitars. I believe that he also was a big proponent of cross-training employees and grouping similar production steps in ‘production pods’. (Kaizen techniques, I believe)

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

Perhaps some guitars out of Corona were not perfect. But putting all "Corona-built Guild flat-tops" into the same "less desirable" category is a serious mistake in stereotyping.

Facts are stubborn things. Corona built Guilds command significantly less on the used market than Tacoma or New Haven.

That is the very definition of "less desirable.

[EllenGtrGrl]

Originally Posted by srick

Ren was instrumental in increasing the efficiencies of the Guild production floor. During his time in New Hartford, the footprint of the production floor was reduced from four floors to two - and they produced more guitars. I believe that he also was a big proponent of cross-training employees and grouping similar production steps in ‘production pods’. (Kaizen techniques, I believe)

A kaizen is an event where employees get together to come up with solutions to streamline production/make it leaner. I think the term you are looking from with regards to "production pods" is cellular production, where you group similar production operations in a "production cell." Doing so, helps to reduce duplication of production processes, reduces floor space, and allows you to improve the manufacturing flow through of a product, by creating more commonality movementwise, by reducing the number of routes you can take (say from sawing to assembly), and the convolution/confusion ("where do I go with these parts? to Assembly Area 1 or Assembly Area 2?") having multiple duplicate production areas can create.

[srick]

Originally Posted by EllenGtrGrl

A kaizen is an event where employees get together to come up with solutions to streamline production/make it leaner. I think the term you are looking from with regards to "production pods" is cellular production, where you group similar production operations in a "production cell." Doing so, helps to reduce duplication of production processes, reduces floor space, and allows you to improve the manufacturing flow through of a product, by creating more commonality movementwise, by reducing the number of routes you can take (say from sawing to assembly), and the convolution/confusion ("where do I go with these parts? to Assembly Area 1 or Assembly Area 2?") having multiple duplicate production areas can create.

That sounds right to me. Regardless, it was amazing to see the transformation of the plant over a two year period. Another local company, (LeGrande-Wiremold), was very heavily invested in the kaizen techniques coupled with production efficiencies; I believe they were in close communication with Ren and his team.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by llew

I had a GAD model that was particularly good but sold it to a guy a while back. Still have a '82 D-40 That is built like a tank...heavy as lead and without much output. Hate to say it but the GAD was a better guitar.

Your D-40 sounds (no pun meant) just like my mid-70s D-55 that I kept for 20 years. It sounded good ... it just didn't sound very loud.

[6L6]

delete post

[drive-south]

I love Fender products and have a house full of their guitars and amps. But I dont like their business practices. They have a history of buying up companies and putting them out of business. In the case of Genz Benz & SWR they eliminated the brands to eliminate competition. Both companies products sold well. Fender could have kept the brands going and made money but that might cut into sales of Fender branded amps. And the Fender acoustic amps and bass amps are no match for Genz Benz or SWR product offerings.

Fender could have kept Tacoma going and used the brand for new innovative designs while keeping the Guild line in a very productive, high quality manufacturing plant. Nope. Shut it down and move it for the third time in a decade. Clearly the bean counters are running the show and are very short on patience.

This is why Fender will never play with Martin, Gibson, or Taylor in the acoustic guitar space.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by drive-south

"I love Fender products and have a house full of their guitars and amps. But I dont like their business practices. They have a history of buying up companies and putting them out of business...

...Fender could have kept Tacoma going and used the brand for new innovative designs while keeping the Guild line in a very productive, high quality manufacturing plant. Nope. Shut it down and move it for the third time in a decade. Clearly the bean counters are running the show and are very short on patience.

This is why Fender will never play with Martin, Gibson, or Taylor in the acoustic guitar space."

Indeed drive-south...you hit the nail square on the head on what really led to the end of the road for Guild at Fender.

The "investors" and "bean counters" at FMIC, the investments/controlling holding company for Fender, and thus Guild, never ever saw the $value$ of Guild in relation to the investors/FMIC. Guild was just a tiny flea on the big dog FMIC, really just sucking up investment capital with little "value added ROI" for FMIC, and in the end, the investors/bean counters won the battle to be rid of Guild.

What I always found interesting though...throughout the whole Guild/Fender saga, was that it was apparent...to me anyway...that someone...or someone's...fairly high up in the management and influence levels of Fender...not likely FMIC, but the Fender division of FMIC...obviously had a very fond/warm spot in their hearts for Guild, saw the value in Guild from the music and retail side of the business, and fought a long and hard and quiet "behind the scenes" fight with the shareholders and bean counters of FMIC to keep Guild around and let them re-build their brand and their place in the market.

They kept moving Guild, rather than just cutting them loose, selling Guild off, or just shutting it down altogether, and they kept letting Guild expand it's product line offerings, and then bringing in Ren Ferguson to help improve production and thus cost efficiency. Even in the last year of Guild at Fender, at NAMM they introduced new lines of guitars including really nice looking mid and higher end market level archtop models, and yet, about half or two thirds of the way through that final year, the word came down from on high that Guild was done at Fender/FMIC...which evidently came as a bit of a shock to the folks at New Hartford, who thought they were finally turning the corner.

Alas...the shareholders and bean counters had won...BUT...not for lack of effort and a pretty good fight put up by some unknown folks within Fender, who really did seem to care about and value Guild, for the caliber of the instruments it had made throughout it's history, and the legacy it had within the music world and the retail market.

At least, at the end, FMIC had the basic decency to go out and find a serious buyer who would take Guild on and try to continue the efforts made at re-vitalizing the brand...instead of just shutting it down and taking portions of Guild's model designs and spec's and folding them into new or already existing fender guitar models, and then trying to capitalize off of and market from whatever little positive Guild vibe still existed within the retail marketplace.

But...I offer...to whomever you were at Fender, who fought a quiet battle to keep Guild alive for as much and as long as you were able to...a very heartfelt

Thank You!


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[1Charlie]

Originally Posted by srick

Ren was instrumental in increasing the efficiencies of the Guild production floor. During his time in New Hartford, the footprint of the production floor was reduced from four floors to two - and they produced more guitars. I believe that he also was a big proponent of cross-training employees and grouping similar production steps in ‘production pods’. (Kaizen techniques, I believe)

I do not dispute that Ren had a profound impact upon his arrival in New Hartford on production and efficiency. My point was that most of the design changes to the traditional models (red spruce bracing on all, red spruce tops on the F-30, F-40, D-40 and D-50, overall lighter builds), all were developed in Tacoma. The Standard Series was designed in New Hartford before Ren's arrival in 2012.

[srick]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

But...I offer...to whomever you were at Fender, who fought a quiet battle to keep Guild alive for as much and as long as you were able to...a very heartfelt

Thank You!


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Yup - totally agree.

[PAPADON]

Originally Posted by Gabby84

Cordoba has done an excellent job with the offshore Guilds. A few seem to be up to GAD!

My understanding is that they're made in the same factory and other than some cosmetic differences they are virtually the same stuff. Just got a new one with solid back and sides and it's everything a Guild ought to be.

[PAPADON]

SORRY MISPOSTED