Custom is for the "stuff for sale/sold" and personal builds are in DIY right?

Kitchen Guitars · #1 02-04-2011, 06:01 PM

Poor DIY is dying on the vine. Some great new builders keep posting in custom. Mods, please help DIY. If I say Taylor in General Acoustics I get sent to the Taylor corner

If I ask about Amps........

WhistlingFish · #2 02-04-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitchen Guitars

Poor DIY is dying on the vine. Some great new builders keep posting in custom. Mods, please help DIY. If I say Taylor in General Acoustics I get sent to the Taylor corner

If I ask about Amps........

From reading through the "sticky" at the top of the Custom Builds area, it's clear that its purpose is to cater for amateur builds as well as those from pros. It seems it's also an appropriate area for those who have commissioned an instrument, as well as for individual builders - amateur or pro - to share their builds with us. If there's any confusion for me, it's with the DIY area - there's no consistent theme in the threads it contains and I'm therefore less sure as to its intent. I too hope one of the mods can clear things up.

Edit: I found this buried in the DIY area in a thread titled "Welcome": It's time to acknowledge the growing build-your-own-guitar movement on the AGF. This section is dedicated to all things guitar building for all ranks of guitar builders - professional, weekend builder, or first time with a chisel. Please enjoy.

hnuuhiwa · #3 02-04-2011, 08:03 PM

My assumption was that DIY was geared towards topics dealing with building - like a "mini" OLF answering How To questions, or sharing tips and techniques - while Custom Shop was more focused on highlighting a custom build (process or result).

In other words, showing and describing how one builds and carves a neck would be in DIY, while pictures of a neck in the process of being carved as a part of a custom build would be in this section as a part of the thread documenting the custom build.

But that was just my assumption......

Gimar Yestra · #4 02-04-2011, 08:41 PM

CUSTOM - Handbuilt and unique custom acoustic guitars from professional luthiers, small builders, and individuals - Check out the latest builds inside!

DIY - Guitar building discussions - acoustic and electric, tips and techniques, CAD/CAM, Laser, alternative materials and advanced technology

its basically right there

but I was confused at first too.

murrmac123 · #5 02-05-2011, 06:31 AM

It seems clear to me that "Custom", by definition, is for detailing the progress of custom guitars, ie those which have been specifically commissioned from a specific builder by a specific client.

Howard Klepper's threads past and present are the epitome of this.

It also seems clear to me that "DIY" is very badly titled.

"DIY" carries connotations of enthusiastic amateurishness, and this is obviously not an image which any competent builder would wish to project, so it's not suprprising that few post on it.

Far better to re-title it "Technical".

Kitchen Guitars · #6 02-05-2011, 08:07 AM

I am glad I am not the only one a little fuzzy on this.
murrmac123 is right. Howard's builds, John Mayes, Tim McKnight, Cornerstone..... is what I thought custom was about. Even though they are clearly pro Luthiers. I am a beginner Guitar Maker, I have a commission on my 3rd guitar. I did the right thing. I ponied up the sponsorship dough so I could Journal my build within the rules of the AGF community. I also put my 3rd build in Custom. #1, and #2 (to me) is clearly DIY.
If nothing else, I think a first build, a second build, my third if it was for me even - would go in the DIY category. I think first, second, kits..... should get moved to DIY as fast as a "I just got a new Taylor Acoustic would get shoved into the Taylor only corner (there's a category to bump in my opinion)
To further illustrate my knowledge that my builds ain't what they can be after a few hundred guitars under the belt;
Tim McKnight just scored the most wonderful striped Oak for my McKnight build. That thread will go in Custom
Maybe during the next Joint Chiefs of staff meetings for AGF at Camp David they can vote for better clarity.
a Suggestion;
Custom - Builds that are one of a kind, Restorations for clients. These guitars are sold or to be sold. Anything that is self marketing for profit or perceived profit. You would have to be a sponsor to post.
DIY - Builds with as many questions as answers. Kits, first few scratch builds, Modifications to personal Guitars. Techniques for building or repairing or personal restorations.
Just a thought.

Brackett Instruments · #7 02-05-2011, 08:37 AM

My impresson was/is that "custom shop" is for professional builders, and clients of professional builders talking about custom guitars. My impression for the DIY is for players, or projects like "the member formerly known as Yamaha Junkie's" thread about the parlor restoration, (There wasn't a DIY section back then.) or someone atending a guitar building, or repair class.

The AGF rules clearlly state

Quote:

You Must be a sponsor to represent your company on the Acoustic Guitar Forum.

My interpretation is that someone who builds guitars, and sells them for money shouldn't be doing build threads if they aren't a sponsor. I think that's "representing their company". I would also think that someone building a guitar for themselves, not for sale would belong in the DIY section, unless of course a professional builder who's also a sponsor were to build a spec guitar or even one for themselves.

Added/Edit: I believe Kitchen Guitars has done everything exactly the way it should be done. I would love for an AGF official to clarify mine, (and everyone elses) interpretation of the rules, and roles of the different sections.

jeastman · #8 02-05-2011, 08:45 AM

I've always thought along the same lines, Woody. Don't get me wrong, I love looking at all the build threads from up and coming luthiers, but per forum rules I've always thought build threads, unless they're started by a client, from non-sponsor builders are utilizing the extensive exposure the AGF offers for free.

That being said I'm extremely grateful for all you sponsors that not only financially contribute to keep this forum up, but take your time and expertise to help us lost soles figure out this instrument and keep our wallets lighter

cotten · #9 02-05-2011, 03:05 PM

Woody, my thoughts mirror yours on this topic, but I just volunteer with the chores, I'm not the AGF owner. I'll alert him to this thread.

cotten

Martin_Nut · #10 02-05-2011, 03:31 PM

I never look in DIY unless I come across something when I am scanning " Today's Posts" that jumps out at me. I ALWAYS check Custom Shop, however. That's mainly where my interest lies as a player/enthusiast. I do think it appropriate to encourage members using beginning luthiers or luthiers from outside AGF to post in the Custom Shop area. Blatant self promotion is inapproriate, and I believe that the AGF builders are always very careful to make it clear that they are posting for the benefit of guys like me, that derive enjoyment from admiring and commenting on their work. Mod decisions based on our forum rules (which work well, IMO) are what keep things flowing in a sensible and enjoyable manner.

John

racman · #11 02-05-2011, 10:49 PM

I totally agree with Woody and Cotten..

I often see advertising by non sponors in very subtle ways and put it down to the poster being unfamiliar with the rules and ethics of the AGF, but it does seem to be on the increase IMHO.

Kitchen Guitars · #12 02-06-2011, 06:23 AM

Thanks Woody!
I did leave out the excited individual that is having a guitar built by a custom builder (sponsor or not) or even a Custom Martin or Taylor... being built. But when a non-sponsor starts having repeat posts promoting them they should do the right thing. Sponsorship for the exposure is a dirt cheap .27 cents a day.
Not saying he should but for all of the free PR he gets around here I bet Kevin Ryan could scrape that together

Gimar Yestra · #13 02-06-2011, 10:55 AM

this is getting confusing... obviously I didnt read the rules. woops

so when is someone promoting themselfs??

Am I promoting myself by posting a build thread of one of my guitars? Or by posting a link to my website in the signature??

I consider myself a beginning luthier, I do own a handmade guitar comany etc.. and this is not ment to promote myself in a subtle way. I hardly make a living from my guitars (not at all actually) and I dont consider people who visit the forum as potential customers. I see this as a way to get serious input on y guitars etc, and also for those who are interested in guitars.

so where do we draw the line??

Tim McKnight · #14 02-06-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimar Yestra

this is getting confusing... obviously I didnt read the rules. woops

so when is someone promoting themselfs??

Am I promoting myself by posting a build thread of one of my guitars? Or by posting a link to my website in the signature??

I consider myself a beginning luthier, I do own a handmade guitar comany etc.. and this is not ment to promote myself in a subtle way. I hardly make a living from my guitars (not at all actually) and I dont consider people who visit the forum as potential customers. I see this as a way to get serious input on y guitars etc, and also for those who are interested in guitars.

so where do we draw the line??

HI Gimar,
There used to be a rule that you were not allowed to post a link to your website in your signature line unless you were a "paying" sponsor of this forum. The rules may have changed but that is the way it used to be.

Tim McKnight · #15 02-06-2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brackett Instruments

My interpretation is that someone who builds guitars, and sells them for money shouldn't be doing build threads if they aren't a sponsor. I think that's "representing their company". I would also think that someone building a guitar for themselves, not for sale would belong in the DIY section, unless of course a professional builder who's also a sponsor were to build a spec guitar or even one for themselves.

Woody,
My thoughts echo yours. Hopefully JR will chime in to clarify when he gets time.