Thoughts/suggestions on my plan?

[RockyMountain]

Howdy, Just wanted to get some input from y'all. I play guitar in a bluegrass-oriented trio (mando and bass are the other legs of the stool). Recently purchased a D18, which I absolutely love...but no pickup installed (yet). With a gig coming up this weekend, I'm trying to keep it nice and simple (and easy to transport), so planning to put a sm57-style mic in front of the guitar, a condenser mic in front of the other two (mainly the mando/lead vocals), and run both into a Fishman Loudbox Artist. We'll be playing a pretty small room, so tons of volume isn't required. I also have a full PA system, but I'd rather not press that into duty if I don't have to. Thoughts? Much appreciated!

Edited to add: I just realized there's an entire forum dedicated to acoustic amplification! Mods, please feel free to move this over there if it makes more sense. Sorry about that!

[PassingThru]

Sounds like you plan should work fine for that room. Just play it and enjoy it.

[Mobilemike]

With just two mics, I'd try the condenser mic in the middle to capture mando/guitar/lead vocals, and the SM57 on the bass.

You and the mandolin player will have to practice mixing yourselves by moving closer and farther from the main microphone depending if you are playing rhythm or breaks, and depending on who is singing.

The 57 on the bass will give a nice solid and constant foundation to the tunes.

Takes a little bit of practice, but this can sound excellent for bluegrass.

[BlueStarfish]

With that equipment, you might also consider trying a slightly different configuration. Use the condenser mic for guitar + mando + vocals, classic single mic style. Put it on a mic stand, up about chest height. Then put the SM57 on the acoustic bass, close-mic’d. You could even go with the old trick of wrapping the mic in a foam wrap and stocking it up under the bridge on the bass. Or, if the bass has a pick-up, just plug in the pick-up and skip the SM57 entirely. Put the loudbox up on a chair or stool, as high as you can get it off the ground, and out in front of the three of you to minimize feedback.

For guitar, mando, and vocals, you’ll control mix simply by moving closer or further from the mic. Taking a solo? Step in. Partner is singing? Step back.

With this set-up, you’ll be able to EQ the bass separately from the rest of the mix, and that could be really handy.

If the bass player has a small portable bass amp, it would be even better to plug the bass into that. But for what you are talking, it should probably still work OK to run the bass through the Loudbox. I’m assuming we’re not talking a super high volume situation with this set-up.

EDIT: I see MobileMike posted the same suggestion — looks like we were both writing a response at the same time.

[martingitdave]

SM57 is the right answer. If you don’t want to affect your guitar’s tone and you want to try a semi-permanent pickup, the K&K pure mini is a great choice. There are MANY other options for you to research. Best of luck. Break a leg.

[LAPlayer]

Once you get your mic placement figured out, the good news is that the Fishman Artist will light up LOTS of space.

[RockyMountain]

I really appreciate the suggestions! I forgot to mention that our standup bass player has a separate little amp that he can plug into for a boost, so the Fishman LB Artist will just be for guitar/mando and vocals. I literally ordered the Fishman last night from Sweetwater, and it's scheduled to arrive tomorrow, so pretty psyched to play around with it. Historically, the weak link in our chain has been my guitar...it just doesn't compete very well with a loud mandolin and a broken-in Kay upright bass. But looking forward to seeing how this Fishman does in terms of leveling the playing field. Cheers all!

[Robin, Wales]

I lot to unpick here.

Do you practice as a trio purely acoustically? If so, then it may be beneficial to get your stage set-up as close to that as possible.

Ask yourself if you could do the gig without any pa at all. If the answer is "no" or "maybe" then dig into why. That will help you assess how much stage "lift" you actually need for this specific gig.

When you say that you are going to use a condenser mic' for mando/vocals - which mic'? If it is a ldc then you are going to want to think about where to position the mic' and where to position your Loudbox. The Loudbox Artist has fairly limited e/q and notch facilities, so ringing out the room may not be ideal - but should be OK. You definitely want the Loudbox in front of the mic line, and probably raised off the ground. Don't expect to get too much gain from it, but if you just need some acoustic "lift" for the gig then it should be fine.

I would be inclined to use the single ldc for guitar, mando and vocals and not worry about the SM57 for the guitar alone. It will be easier to get balance with just the one ldc mic' - and good balance is more important then overall volume.

If you can get a soft back wall behind the band (drapes or similar) then you will find that the single mic' will work better.

When using a mic'd system - particularly a single mic' system as opposed to close mic'd voices and instruments - you should not expect to get a lot of gain from your pa system. You will be playing basically a volume enhanced purely acoustic gig. This is not "bad" as audiences tend to respond quite naturally to lower volume gigs. I have successfully single mic'd a lot of venues/situations that others would be worried about.

Good luck with the gig!

[lkingston]

Are people seated and quietly listening to you, or are they socializing?

My opinion is that miked instruments work well for (and sound beautiful) in a concert where everyone is being quiet, but absolutely don’t cut it if you have to contend with any ambient noise.

[RockyMountain]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Are people seated and quietly listening to you, or are they socializing?

My opinion is that miked instruments work well for (and sound beautiful) in a concert where everyone is being quiet, but absolutely don’t cut it if you have to contend with any ambient noise.

I think it'll be more of a socializing bunch, with us doing our thing (more or less) in the background. The mando player and I spent a couple of hours this evening trying out different options (all centering around the Loudbox Artist). Based on that, I think we'll be fine miking the guitar, and running his mando/vocals through a condenser (Lewitt LCT 441 Flex). The upright bass will plug into a separate amp. We'll be at it tomorrow morning for a couple of hours, then moving a few doors down and playing another hour or so at a different venue. Will be interesting, and I'll sure post back about how it goes. I really, really appreciate all the suggestions and words of encouragement!

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by RockyMountain

I think it'll be more of a socializing bunch, with us doing our thing (more or less) in the background. The mando player and I spent a couple of hours this evening trying out different options (all centering around the Loudbox Artist). Based on that, I think we'll be fine miking the guitar, and running his mando/vocals through a condenser (Lewitt LCT 441 Flex). The upright bass will plug into a separate amp. We'll be at it tomorrow morning for a couple of hours, then moving a few doors down and playing another hour or so at a different venue. Will be interesting, and I'll sure post back about how it goes. I really, really appreciate all the suggestions and words of encouragement!

That sounds great!

I talked to Lewitt last month about their recommendations for a single stage mic' for bluegrass. I'm using a Rode NT1a at present, which is very sensitive at the top end but works fine through a good e/q. As I already have a Rode ldc, they suggested giving the cheap 240 pro a try as a stage mic' for bluegrass. It is a slightly smaller capsule than the usual 1" found in ldc mic's. I'm not sure what effect this will have but seeing as it is so cheap I may get one and just try it out as an alternative to my Rode.

Let us know how your gig goes. There are very few reports here on AGF from folks using mic' systems at gigs rather than plugging-in.

[Silly Moustache]

Another vote for Bluestarfish and mobilemike.

I've had two separate trios with a mando/reso player and double bass player.

I'm in the middle with 6 and 12 string acoustics.

I used an original Rode NT1 for my vocals and guitar, and for the mando / Dobro player, and his back up vocals.

Single dynamic mic for the bass as spec'd above.

Now this is over miced as it was being recorded and mixed by a professional studio engineer, but we managed to recreate the same balance and similar quality in pubs and clubs.

[rmp]

The question above on is this a listening crowd or a socializing crowd was what I was also going to ask.

Crowd noise will probably be your biggest hurdle. The louder you are, the louder the crowd's socializing will get.

have you considered sound hole pickups which can be inserted and removed when needed. I've used them before they work, they're not expensive and the one I used without ever harming the guitar.

any music store should have them. if you are anywhere near a good sized one.

[Robin, Wales]

I have just ordered the Lewitt 240 pro with shock mount and windshield - total £103.00 including UK tax and shipping - so the whole package was cheaper than buying a single K&K Mini pick-up in the UK.

I'll drop a review here on the Acoustic Amplification section of the forum when I have had a chance to test it out for live playing.