Dave Matthews Live Sound - Page 3

yukonkornelius · #31 09-12-2006, 12:13 PM

Someone should post a clip of Live at Luther College when Dave played the Lakewood. If that's not quality sound, then I don't get out enough.

Guyute · #32 09-12-2006, 12:15 PM

I agree, but the LLC disc was recorded with mikes. The pickup only went FOH.

Taylor007 · #33 09-12-2006, 04:10 PM

Rick - seems to me you really dislike the tone of Dave's guitar, but love the tone of your own horn.

Taylor007 · #34 09-12-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guyute

I agree, but the LLC disc was recorded with mikes. The pickup only went FOH.

Not so sure about this , how did tim's looping get recorded with only mics?

astrummer · #35 09-12-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

You guys are confusing music with tone. His music is pretty darned good. His tone is not. He could sound a lot better than he does......

Once again I'm reminded that, even from my own very limited experience, it is fraught with interpersonal dangers to try and make constructive comments in this area. I think from someone who has made a career out of trying to help people get a better sound from their guitars Mr. Turner's comments should be given the benefit of the doubt with regard to motive.

sirflyguy2000 · #36 09-12-2006, 06:08 PM

Maybe this one needs to be locked down? The "Be Nice" rule has been trod upon and trampled. The "Be Nice" rule is crying right now...

whamonkey · #37 09-12-2006, 06:36 PM

I love everybody here........and I like DM's sound.

Have a nice day.

Compurocker · #38 09-12-2006, 07:04 PM

If his live sound bothers you that much, don't go see him live or listen to his live recordings. How important is it in your day to day existence?

Rick Turner · #39 09-12-2006, 07:13 PM

Touchy, touchy, touchy! I don't listen to his live CDs except at tunes come up on the radio. I'm telling you, I like the guy's music, but you don't all have to accept the whole package like an uncritical moon-eyed fan. I'd like listening to DM a lot more if the guitars sounded like guitars and not rubber bands on cardboard.

Rick Turner · #40 09-12-2006, 07:18 PM

Since the matter of Jerry Garcia's acoustic plugged in tone came up, I'll go on record as saying I don't like that either. Same issues...rubber bands on cardboard. Can't do anything about that now, though.

And I'm not tooting my own horn, but I was called out on my qualifications to dare to criticize someone who many of you are blindly and deafly hero worshipping. Dave can do no wrong, right? Get off of the adulation, guys; he's as fallible as any of the rest of us. Try comparing that thwappy sound to what Martin Simpson has on his live CD. No comparison.

guitaniac · #41 09-12-2006, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

Since the matter of Jerry Garcia's acoustic plugged in tone came up, I'll go on record as saying I don't like that either. Same issues...rubber bands on cardboard. Can't do anything about that now, though.

Is the direct-from-pickup sound on a separate track somewhere? If so, how about a remix using Mama Bear? That should help somewhat.

Gary

Eastmeadow Mike · #42 09-12-2006, 07:42 PM

Since I started the thread, I will try to put a couple samples up. One of a great bootleg, the other from LLC.

I knew I'd get some feedback...but did not expect this.

Rick, I have to say, that the tenor of your posts always come off a tad condescending. Your experience is invaluable to many of us, myself included, but basically your tone (you love that word!) seems to be the only right one.

DM is not an idiot. Neither are most of his millions of fans. I know when I see a sucky show, and chalk it up to just that. But that guy has done more for the acoustic guitar than anyone in years. Is he the best? HELL NO.

Maybe he likes the duck, brother. If you don't, it does not make him, and all of us fellow AGF'ers, that like him the villain you make him out to be.

By the way....beat up Dave.... BUT JERRY? Come over my house and kick my puppy in the butt, why don't you???

Joe Barbieri · #43 09-12-2006, 07:47 PM

Sometimes the message is overshadowed by the delivery. Reading subjectivity into someones post is kind of like subjective opinions on tone. Everyone hears it differently. It is also the case that emotion overrides logic and the words written in a post are simply not read correctly. Rick, although direct and firm in his opinion, is not attacking Dave or his music. It is not a good idea to kill threads like this since issues of some acidity never really will get discussed and that would be bad. I always read twice and post once.
I have installed pickups in Dave's Gibson SST's, Martins and Taylors and I can tell you that no one knows what is in his head regarding tone except him. He likes what he likes. There is no real comparison between him and guys like Martin Simpson, JT etc, who's total musical statements revolve around their guitar tone. Dave's does not. It's the songs and the emotion and whatever else floats your boat about his music. In the venues he plays in and stage volumes he plays at, acoustic tone is a moot point. I've seen him many times and his sound works in his application. He could probably play a Tele and it would work as well. Acoustic guitar signals as represented by a pickup are not meant to be a recorded dream sound. Some people may get that result but it is a secondary consideration. Live is the key, not the live album. Wings over America, long considered one of the most amazing live albums has Paul playing an Ovation during his acoustic set. It sounds like crap on the record but I'm sure if you were there listening to him play Yesterday on it at the concert, that would have been the last thing on your mind.

Rick Turner · #44 09-12-2006, 07:56 PM

I always knew that you Dave Matthews fans were a bit on the completely uncritical and rabid side of the fence, but some you are completely off base here. You are so intent on defending your hero that you just won't listen to how bad his guitar sounds. And then if you can hear it, you think it's intentional. I would hope it's not but is rather what DM thinks is available...and he hasn't gotten past about 1990 in learning what's really possible now.

And yes, I can criticize Jerry Garcia's plugged in guitar sound, too, and there I have some history. I traveled with the Grateful Dead for a number of tours from 1970 to 1973 and mixed front of house on a lot of shows. The Garcia you see in Grateful Dawg is a shadow of his former being...too many years on heroin, too many grams of coke up his nose, and playing a guitar strung too lightly to sound good, even if he had better pickups.

Sorry, guys, but I actually do know a thing or two about guitar tone, both acoustically and electrically, and I stand by my criticism of how bad some of these recorded sounds really are. And yes, Gary, if someone wanted to, they could probably really improve those sounds in a re-mix through Mama Bear. But that's not my job anymore...

And as for those of you who think that sound...that tone...is great, well, I just don't agree. And once again, get over it...I'm critical of the tone, not the heart of the person unless they really don't care to seek out something better. Why do that to you, the loyal fans? There's no excuse whatsoever for harsh, grating, unmusical tone.

Rick Turner · #45 09-12-2006, 08:03 PM

So what I'm reading from Joe is that Dave really doesn't care so much about his guitar tone...it's the music that counts. And that was one of my earliest points...that he doesn't care about it. Tone would seem to be irrelevant to DM. And for pointing that out as a hypothesis, I get flamed and reamed here... Yeah, kill the messenger, guys!

For me, the music would come off much better if he did care more about his tone. I know the products that Joe installed, and I know they could sound a hell of a lot better if someone cared to process the pickup sounds properly. Joe, get that boy an Aura right now! And get his producer to post process a bunch of that stuff for the re-release of any live CDs...