Setting up my rig

[Gottaplay]

Ok this isn't exactly big time gear I`m talking about here folks but hey I`m going for the best sound I can get this what I`ve got.

My main guitar is a 1998 Larrivee L-03 mahogany with an onboard K&K Trinity. soundported (zero regrets) the Larry for several reasons including being able to better hear myself in unamplified rehearsals. Having an upright bass on my left, a tenor banjo /fiddle to my right, a cannon of a mandolin at my 2 o'clock and a howitzer of a Larrivee dreadnought at 11 o'clock makes it challenging to hear how I`m doing. The port actually works for this...but I digress.

So pretending to ignore... well OK ignoring having a 2 source system with internal preamp exiting the guitar as a combined unbalanced signal and remaining that way...I know I know what a waste... from there it's into my trusty ol' TU-2 tuner with it's beneficial 1M ohm signal debatably complying with the ubiquitous PARA DI. I`m fairly new to the PADI and despite rereading the manual a few times in the few attempts thus far to dial in "the sound" have sqealed and honked enough to start to get a feel but I`m not even close yet to full potential using what I got.
Finally my amp is a Yorkville AM100 acoustic amp currently selling rebranded as Traynor AM100T. Decent acoustic amp with enough output and headroom for smallish venues.

Aside from use as a solo rig I`ll be using it to hold up my end in a five piece oldtime string band that also does songs, So I`m looking for something that will work without to much fuss for rhythm strumming with occasional leads breaks as well as fingerpicking Doc, Bob and Lyle.

My plan is to use if required a sound hole feedback buster. Two unplanned benefits of having ported the Larry is now I can reposition the thumbwheel volume controls from the sound hole up to the side port on the upper bout, I`m pretty sure the 9v battery will be accessible too which vastly simplifies matters.

I had been considering running a MXR 10 band pedal EQ and may still go that route if the PADI remains untameable or wanting but I really hope to get it a least decent.

The crux of the matter may not be so much equipment but rather me. Despite having loved and played and sung music all my life off and on AND having what I consider to be a decent ear I don't know sound. Im thinking I need to educate myself regarding what makes an acoustic guitar actually sounds better or worse, complimentary or not, balanced and not,,,yada yada you get my point.

Coming from a plug in and go attitude to trying to take it further places a lot of learning curves in my path.At least it's really interesting so I must be a fledgling guitar geek,,,who knew?

Stagecraft... Phew there's a whole other kettle of fish. Specifically methods of switching gears from playing supporting rhythm to fingerpicking lead. Long story short I`m thinking thumbwheel volume tweeks and PADI tweeks should hopefully cover it. Booster pedals a such...naw that's getting serious.

So many questions. Yup I`ll continue to try and dial it in here, what choice since money's tight? Try and make the best with what i`ve got. So please no "Perfect World" split the signal at source into a K&K Quantum then into a two channel 15 band EQ with umpteen pedals and it never ends. I`m no Stephen Fearing... bless his little crooked heart.

[varmonter]

Sounds like you have enough gear to get
the job done. i dont think the input impedance of the padi is 1 mgohm.
that may be one place to start. for me...
i udually do a low cut somewhere
between 150 and 180. than a boost around 400. a sharp mid cut in the 700
area. and a high cut wherevrr the sparkle
is. The trinity is a Piezo/mic combo correct??
If your band is loud. you may need to dial the mic way back.

[Gottaplay]

Yup the input on the PADI is 10M ohm so I read a heap of reports on that including Doug Young tests so for my ears and level of playing the PADI ought to do the trick. Not being able to accurately dial in the EQ frequencies doesn't thrill me so much but for now I`ll learn to fudge it, Down the road maybe a blended signal preamp but not yet.

Thanks for the frequencies I`ll refer to that as a starting point going from flat.

Last night I monkeyed with the internals preamp settings with and without the feedback buster in the sound hole. The only player I know of that uses a FB buster with a dual source internal is Tommy Emmanuel. Whoa...way outta my league but learn and emulate/borrow from the best. Given that my amp is going to be onstage either behind me or off my left shoulder and it's a wedge design I`m going to try various positions and heights that will allow 1. feedback resistance. 2.as a guitar monitor and 3. when requiring sound reinforcement to balance with the banjo/fiddle,mandolin and bass. 4. feed to PA when required.

Correct me if I`m wrong but I think a good starting point for dialing things in begins with the source. Given that it's a dual source mono out does it make sense to balance the perceived outputs of the soundboard transducer and the internal microphone using the internal preamps two sets of 3 eq's and volume in order to set it and forget it OR leave the EQ's flat for a stronger signal for correction down the road..naw that just silly.

[varmonter]

i would set your guitar flat. give your
amp lots of signal from the pup.
Dial your amp to get the best sound
you can at the volume you expect
to play at. Then use your guitar eq and the para to fine tune. that way you dont
have to keep walking back to your
amp to make adjustments at the gig.
Plus the closer you get to the amp
the more feedback youll get.
Doing this at volume is key..

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Gottaplay

…The crux of the matter may not be so much equipment but rather me. Despite having loved and played and sung music all my life off and on AND having what I consider to be a decent ear I don't know sound. Im thinking I need to educate myself regarding what makes an acoustic guitar actually sounds better or worse, complimentary or not, balanced and not,,,yada yada you get my point.

Hi G-play

First of all, you don't need to relocate the controls when using a "Big-Black-Soundhole-Plug". A pair of tin snips and you can cut a small "U"-shaped sliver out of the Feedback-Buster which will leave the volume controls exposed.

The feedback buster doesn't need to be hermetically sealed to work. I interchangeable us Lute Hole covers in my guitars, and they work just as well as the big-black-plug, and are full of laser cut holes.

This is a lute-hole cover modified for use in my Bashkin…and a Feedback Buster modified for use in my Olson…LOOK AT ALL THAT AIR! yet it works perfectly.



They work equally well on aggressive stages for me. I have the lute-hole covers because they look better at weddings or funerals than the big-black-plug. When I played a Baggs Dual Source, I just cut out the edge where the controls were and it didn't affect the feedback blocking abilities at all.

Nor does the side port on my Kronbauer make it more sensitive to feedback.

Part of the issue of knowing how guitars sound is knowing how MY guitar sounds through a system. I always either pop my looper onto the system and record about 2-3 minutes of different styles and turn it loose so I can go out front and listen, or have my gigging partner (who knows my style and can replicate it well) play while I go out into the room and listen. Guitars usually sound really different than we realize out-front. We are used to hearing them from behind.

It was eye opening for my students when I taught when I played their guitar and they sat across from it and listened. I played every student's guitar at every lesson to remind myself of what obstacles they might be facing in learning what I was teaching, and to alert them to changes in their action, string condition etc. While I played theirs, they played my guitars, which means I got to listen to them from the other side (equally eye opening). This is an exercise I recommend to players.

[Gottaplay]

Thanks guys.

I should have mentioned that the onboard Trinity preamp is only adjustable using a long skinny screwdriver to turn the EQ and gain trim pots from it's position mounted within the guitar beneath the sound hole. So I'm guessing that the mic and SBT should be optimized internally as a first stage in the chain. Now where to set them is the question..I think. Lot's of not overdriven signal sounds like a good idea and getting both channels kinda not competing sonically strikes me as a good place to work from. K&K still sells this system and I found the manual on their site. Once the preamp is dialled in to delivery and workable signal I`ll move from sound hole area for a cleaner look and then focus on amp then whatever processing I`ve got at my feet.

Glad to know about being able to hack the feedback buster and not lose it's effectiveness. It`ll likely boil down to two things. Whichever position be it sound hole or soundproof that make a quick adjustment easier while still being able to easily pul out the battery for checks via the soundport. I might get tight mounting the double thumbwheel there and trying to squeeze the 9V out given it's a 1 1/2" circular port. I could switch it to an elipse who knows?

It's surprising how decent my iPhone is at recording our practises. The difference between what I hear when I play in an unplugged group setting vs the sound of my guitar out front of me was a real eye opener. Since soundporting the difference between the two has lessened but more importantly to me is being able to more clearly here what I`m playing when everyone is given'r.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Gottaplay

Yup the input on the PADI is 10M ohm so I read a heap of reports on that including Doug Young tests so for my ears and level of playing the PADI ought to do the trick. Not being able to accurately dial in the EQ frequencies doesn't thrill me so much but for now I`ll learn to fudge it, Down the road maybe a blended signal preamp but not yet.

Also, FYI, when you have an active pickup system, the input impedance on your outboard gear doesn’t matter, unless you have some crazy high input impedance. It’s is just a concern with passive piezos but your onboard Trinity is already preamped/buffered so a 1mohm or 10mohm input won’t matter.

[Gottaplay]

Thanks the heads up regarding the impedance issue. Prior to a few days ago I was unaware of the impedance matching issue and it's effect of pickup. preamp and amp choices. There's lots of info floating around and much of it written vehemently. This site has been quite helpful in firstly making me aware of this phenomenon and secondly how there is lots of contradiction. As a relative newbie the concept of system component compatibility from the guitar pick to the audience is often bewildering for me at least. As an amateur just getting into playing out and with a limited budget getting it "good enough" and not needing to upgrade anytime soon is an elusive goal.

The Para DI i`m using is not mine and will/could be unavailable at some critical time so a replacement alternative is likely the next bit of kit. Whether or not to keep the Trinity onboard preamp system stock as is or tweet it is another consideration that I`m pretending to ignore. If I resoldered the jack TRS and split the channels I could do separate EQ's then send it to a blah blah trouble trouble $$$. That road leads to dark expensive but potential good places with pretty darn good sound. So I dunno.

It's one thing to listen to a performance and know instinctively if the sound is great, good or bad. it's another thing to listen and know what's actually wrong and how to make it better. It's a huge step up for me at least to be able to simply and easily create and reliably reproduce good respectable quality sound.
It's the old...you don't know, what you don't know. Like the time I asked one the best soundmen around my area if it would be alright if I were to shadow him (stay the hell outta his way and keep my yapper mostly zipped) at a benefit gig where the players were mainly doing short sets and the room was problematic. Predictably he made it look easy and much of it escape my comprehension none the less he graciously allowed me to fiddle with digital board just enough to avoid a train wreck and it was fascinating. How much of it I retained..well I`m not the sharpest knife in the drawer but at least I got me a glimpse of the process. Sorry for digressing from this thread main topic..I`ll start another thread continuing this in hopes of gaining more understanding of sound reinforcement.