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Old 10-10-2016, 10:52 PM
richiec richiec is offline
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Default That's Alright Mama - Arthur Crudup Style

Hi All
I've been trying to figure out That's Alright Mama in the style of the original by Arthur Crudup. I know he had another guitar player on the recording, but does anyone know how Crudup played it? Was it alternating bass fingerstyle? Anything else? Most of the web says it's in the key of A. Any other info?

Thanks
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Old 10-11-2016, 02:48 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by richiec View Post
Hi All
I've been trying to figure out That's Alright Mama in the style of the original by Arthur Crudup. I know he had another guitar player on the recording, but does anyone know how Crudup played it? Was it alternating bass fingerstyle? Anything else? Most of the web says it's in the key of A. Any other info?

Thanks
All I hear on the original is one (electric) guitar, double bass and drums. The electric is played mostly as strummed partial chords or double stops with occasional single-string lead phrases.
If there is a subliminal acoustic in the background, playing it alternating bass would have been a waste of time, and it would have been strummed. But as I say, it's inaudible anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxHQUvCkV20

It's in the key of Bb, btw, but could well have been tuned up, or played as A with capo on 1.
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:07 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I'm sorry that I can't help the OP with his question, but I can say that I met Arthur Crudup, back in, I guess the '70s in London.

My pal Don and I went to see him at a noted venue - the Half Moon, in Putney.

We were drinking Guinness in the large bar before they opened the doors, and we watched as a young hippie roadie type led an old black man out , and sat him at a small table, with a bottle of whisky.

My pal don (always a frindly cove) said - look at that poor guy, probably has no idea where he is, looks lonely, let''s go over and talk to him.

We went over, and said - "may we sit here?"

He looked bemused and made to get up and leave ...we said no, no, Mr Crudup, we just thought we'd come over and talk to you".
He looked confused, but sat down. Don was an expert on blues of all kinds and started to talk about what he knew and asked Mr Crudup, questions that interested and involved him.

Soon the roadie returned to take him in to prepare to perform. "I stood up, shook his (giant) hand and said - it's been an honour meeting you sir".

He looked shocked and looking deeply in to my eyes said :
"You the first white boy EVER called me sir!"
Then he was led away.
Needless to say we were in the front row again that night.

He did tell us that he never received a penny from Presley or his recording company for "That's Alright Mama".
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:36 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Great story! I lived in Twickenham and Sheen in the 1970s, and often visited (and occasionally played at) the Half-Moon. Missed out on Mr Crudup, unfortunately... (as I did on so many others, before and since... ;( ) The one under-rated veteran black US musician I did see there was Ted Hawkins in the 1980s - brilliant.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:29 AM
richiec richiec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
All I hear on the original is one (electric) guitar, double bass and drums. The electric is played mostly as strummed partial chords or double stops with occasional single-string lead phrases.
If there is a subliminal acoustic in the background, playing it alternating bass would have been a waste of time, and it would have been strummed. But as I say, it's inaudible anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxHQUvCkV20

It's in the key of Bb, btw, but could well have been tuned up, or played as A with capo on 1.
Hey Jon PR
Thanks so much for the reply
I saw that YouTube clip also and someone has written that Scotty Moore plays lead guitar while Bill Black plays bass (no drums) but you're right the second guitar is pretty hard to make out. I'm sure you're right about the playing style
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:41 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by richiec View Post
Hey Jon PR
Thanks so much for the reply
I saw that YouTube clip also and someone has written that Scotty Moore plays lead guitar while Bill Black plays bass (no drums)
Well, that's on the Elvis version! Elvis plays strummed acoustic on his cover.

No idea who played bass and drums on the Crudup version (not that it matters ).

You could certainly adapt either version to make a fingerstyle alternating bass arrangement - I suspect many people have done that before. E.g....

Jerry Reed - accompanied but playing fingerstyle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OtozxdraDU (he seems to be in open G tuning)
Here's a nice solo instrumental one (in A, standard tuning): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiP33n19Cw4
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Last edited by JonPR; 10-11-2016 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:50 AM
pegleghowell pegleghowell is offline
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Arthur`s "That`s Alright Mama" is played in crossnote tuning.Capoed up to pitch.
Arthur never used any other tuning,crossnote for everything.
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Old 10-11-2016, 04:53 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by pegleghowell View Post
Arthur`s "That`s Alright Mama" is played in crossnote tuning.Capoed up to pitch.
Arthur never used any other tuning,crossnote for everything.
Interesting, thanks. Would that be an open E minor?
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Old 10-11-2016, 05:22 AM
richiec richiec is offline
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That would explain a lot though I've never heard it called "crossnote"

Thanks everyone - this should help me work it out along with carious Youtube covers

I love the international community here.
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:31 AM
frankmcr frankmcr is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post


He did tell us that he never received a penny from Presley or his recording company for "That's Alright Mama".
It's not the performer's responsibility to pay royalties to the composer.

"Arthur Crudup was credited as the composer on the label of Presley's single, but Crudup had to wait until the 1960s when he received an estimated $60,000 in back royalties." (wikipedia, quoting Michael Gray's Bob Dylan Encyclopedia)
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Old 10-11-2016, 12:58 PM
richiec richiec is offline
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Originally Posted by frankmcr View Post
It's not the performer's responsibility to pay royalties to the composer.

"Arthur Crudup was credited as the composer on the label of Presley's single, but Crudup had to wait until the 1960s when he received an estimated $60,000 in back royalties." (wikipedia, quoting Michael Gray's Bob Dylan Encyclopedia)
True, Elvis may not have been legally responsible, but he certainly knew he was getting rich and famous by covering the songs of artists who were not profiting from their work. For an alternative approach , you can look at Peter Paul and Mary who made sure that Rev Gary Davis got royalties for Samson and Delilah (although I read somewhere that Davis in turn got that song form someone else. )
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:26 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmcr View Post
It's not the performer's responsibility to pay royalties to the composer.

"Arthur Crudup was credited as the composer on the label of Presley's single, but Crudup had to wait until the 1960s when he received an estimated $60,000 in back royalties." (wikipedia, quoting Michael Gray's Bob Dylan Encyclopedia)
That is very interesting. I can't remember when Don and I met him, but I suspect it was about '68/9. It might have been 1970.

I clearly remember Mr Crudup saying that he had received nothing in royalties.

I googled, and found this on:http://www.londonguitarist.co.uk/arthurcrudup.php

"In 1968 the blues promoter Dick Waterman took up the fight for Crudup's royalties and managed to get an agreement that Crudup would be paid $60,000. The agreement was not honoured though as Hill and Range Songs, who were supposed to pay the royalties, refused to sign the legal papers as they thought they could not lose more money in legal action.
In the early seventies activists Celia Santiago and Margaret Carter tried to help Crudup get the royalties, but had little success.
In 1970 Crudup toured in the UK and recorded with local musicians. He would also tour with Bonnie Raitt.
In 1974 Crudup died of complications of heart disease and diabetes in Northampton County, Virginia.
It wasn't long after Crudup's death that the claims to his royalties were finally sorted. Chapell Music were buying Hill and Range and wanted the legal dispute settled. Waterman used that to get Hill and Range to pay out to Crudup's estate. The first check was for $248,000 and over the next thirty years $3 million would be paid out.
Crudup was honoured with a marker on the Mississippi Blues Trail.
Elvis Presley would be highly influenced by Crudup. Presley once remarked "If I had any ambition, it was to be as good as Arthur Crudup".

I can't verify any of this one way or t'other. A sad situation of course, but what rings in my ears, over the years, is that no white person had ever called him "sir" before.
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I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2016, 03:39 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Great story! I lived in Twickenham and Sheen in the 1970s, and often visited (and occasionally played at) the Half-Moon. Missed out on Mr Crudup, unfortunately... (as I did on so many others, before and since... ;( ) The one under-rated veteran black US musician I did see there was Ted Hawkins in the 1980s - brilliant.
Jon, I'm sending you a PM.
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I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2016, 04:44 AM
pegleghowell pegleghowell is offline
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By the way Ransom Knowling played bass and Judge Riley played drums on Arthurs` version.
Crossnote -(open e minor) capoed up to pitch.Sometimes Arthur would capo up 7 frets or so.
How do I know?.He told me so.
You can lead a Horse to water etc..!!.
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2016, 10:37 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegleghowell View Post
By the way Ransom Knowling played bass and Judge Riley played drums on Arthurs` version.
Crossnote -(open e minor) capoed up to pitch.Sometimes Arthur would capo up 7 frets or so.
Right - it would be fret 6 for this one, to put open E(m) into Bb.
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