Finding notes on the fretboard: good article

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Thanks! Here is what I have found surprising; in my note-finding exercise on the fretboard, let's say I'm working with C, because I have not quite yet remembered exactly where C is on the next string, but I know the vicinity, I choose a note...it's not C, but I am getting a better aural sense of how close I am to it.

Baby steps!

There you go! That and if you can judge by ear the interval from the note you did play to the correct note things will go much faster.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

let's say I'm working with C, because I have not quite yet remembered exactly where C is on the next string, but I know the vicinity, I choose a note...it's not C, but I am getting a better aural sense of how close I am to it.

There are also some tricks for doing this and you may already know them. On the four bass strings any note is on the next string higher five frets lower. It's octave is on next but one string higher and two frets higher. Figure out how to adjust this for the fact that the interval between the G and B strings is one fret less than all the others and you can do a lot.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

There you go! That and if you can judge by ear the interval from the note you did play to the correct note things will go much faster.

Thanks Derek. Ear training.....into the soup pot! It's happening anyway, as part of what I'm ALREADY doing. Who knew?!

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by stanron

There are also some tricks for doing this and you may already know them. On the four bass strings any note is on the next string higher five frets lower. It's octave is on next but one string higher and two frets higher. Figure out how to adjust this for the fact that the interval between the G and B strings is one fret less than all the others and you can do a lot.

Thanks Stanron. I know I've probably seen this before....but either it was before I was "ready" for it, if that makes sense, or else mixed in with LOTS of other information I've been gathering in the storm of inquiry over these past few weeks. Time to sort out my pile of gems! I appreciate your sharing this trick. It goes on my music stand to explore during practice....TODAY!

[cshadwell]

There are many ways into learning the fretboard, my way was to learn the CAGED system as written in Fretboard Logic by Bill Edwards. He didn't invent the system but his explanation is easily understood and straightforward. One way to go.

[SunnyDee]

The structure of music is so complex and interconnected that you can look at it in a million different ways, not to mention all the variations in people's goals and styles.

There's definitely an advantage to being able to communicate about music, even if no one around knows theory, there's such a wealth of information and music that you can learn from once you understand what the heck they are saying.

But how people think of the fretboard can vary quite a bit, it seems. My goal is composing/songwriting so I did start with ear training, but I feel like theory has given me a shortcut to understanding how music is put together. I'm old so I need shortcuts.

If someone says to me "try an F# with that," yes, I could find any one of the F#s on the fretboard, but not because I've memorized the exact spot, in other words, it's not like the memory game, Lottery, where I only have that spot as a reference. Instead, I have some good landmarks and then I know how the guitar is set up to place a 4th, major 3rd, minor 3rd, etc. from any note, no matter what it is.

For example, if I know I have my finger on a C, I know that the 4th of C is F, one string down, so one fret toward the body is F#. That's how I would find it. I'm always looking for faster connections, but that's the process.

[dkstott]

I completely agree.... How you develop the ability to locate a note on the fretboard ends up being how people handle the information.

My path is similar in knowing shortcuts to notes... After playing songs in a variety of keys, I've developed a sense of where a note is.

As I believe Jerry Garcia once said "You're never more than one fret away from a note that'll work"

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

The structure of music is so complex and interconnected that you can look at it in a million different ways, not to mention all the variations in people's goals and styles.

There's definitely an advantage to being able to communicate about music, even if no one around knows theory, there's such a wealth of information and music that you can learn from once you understand what the heck they are saying.

But how people think of the fretboard can vary quite a bit, it seems. My goal is composing/songwriting so I did start with ear training, but I feel like theory has given me a shortcut to understanding how music is put together. I'm old so I need shortcuts.

If someone says to me "try an F# with that," yes, I could find any one of the F#s on the fretboard, but not because I've memorized the exact spot, in other words, it's not like the memory game, Lottery, where I only have that spot as a reference. Instead, I have some good landmarks and then I know how the guitar is set up to place a 4th, major 3rd, minor 3rd, etc. from any note, no matter what it is.

For example, if I know I have my finger on a C, I know that the 4th of C is F, one string down, so one fret toward the body is F#. That's how I would find it. I'm always looking for faster connections, but that's the process.

[TBman]

Sometimes having an idea of where notes are is helpful when adjusting a tab. I'm learning Rambling Blues and there's this neat little lead section where you're playing between the 7th and 10th fret, then at the end it's going down to the bflat at the 3rd fret 3rd string and then an open string, but I knew there was another bflat closer to where I was so I'm using that. It just flows better for me.

[dkstott]

To add to my earlier comment.. Something that helped me in orientation was;

Take a few minutes every day or at least a minimum of once a week to do this;

Randomly select a location on the fretboard. It doesn't matter what your preference is how you determine what the note is.

One Caveat is to never repeat your string selection for the random note chosen the previous day

Call it your ROOT note, then play out the basic 7 notes in the scale from there. That's the full exercise. your done.



It won't be long before you can do this quickly from anywhere on the fretboard. Then start working out where the 3rd of the scale is & adding in minor scales, etc.

This will broaden your sense of note location. It also breaks you of the habit of always selecting the 6th string for finding the root of any scale.

Dave

[Toby Walker]

The way I learned the notes on the fretboard was by making it all about having fun. I would first learn a great chord or lick that I could use in a particular key and play the bejeebers out of it until it became a part of my DNA. Because I also associated that lick with its root note, that note also became memorized... without me even having to put in any effort at all.

I still teach folks how to do it that way and trust me, they're having loads of fun doing it.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by dkstott

To add to my earlier comment.. Something that helped me in orientation was;

Take a few minutes every day or at least a minimum of once a week to do this;

Randomly select a location on the fretboard. It doesn't matter what your preference is how you determine what the note is.

One Caveat is to never repeat your string selection for the random note chosen the previous day

Call it your ROOT note, then play out the basic 7 notes in the scale from there. That's the full exercise. your done.



It won't be long before you can do this quickly from anywhere on the fretboard. Then start working out where the 3rd of the scale is & adding in minor scales, etc.

This will broaden your sense of note location. It also breaks you of the habit of always selecting the 6th string for finding the root of any scale.

Dave

Great idea, Dave. I've not yet gotten to playing scales. Your suggestion might be a good way to enter into that phase of my journey.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by dkstott

Randomly select a location on the fretboard. It doesn't matter what your preference is how you determine what the note is.

...
Call it your ROOT note, then play out the basic 7 notes in the scale from there. That's the full exercise. your done.



It won't be long before you can do this quickly from anywhere on the fretboard. Then start working out where the 3rd of the scale is & adding in minor scales, etc.

This will broaden your sense of note location. It also breaks you of the habit of always selecting the 6th string for finding the root of any scale.

Dave

This is actually how I started, but I based it all on scale patterns using solfege syllables, do re mi fa....

This way I didn't need to know the notes of each scale, or to memorize a physical shape to play one octave of a scale, and the syllables make it clear how scales are related to each other, whereas scale degrees are harder to relate across scales quickly, for me, and harder for me to remember.

This worked well, but I hesitated when I wanted to jump outside of one octave or to continue past the B string, etc, so I decided I had to really learn the intervals on the guitar in order to know where and how to skip across strings easily. So now, for example, if I know how to make a major 3rd and a minor 3rd from any note, I can form any triad, maj7, or dom7 easily, because they are just combinations of 3rds. I've memorized the syllables that help me keep my place in the scale for making 3rds, 4ths, etc (and there aren't many, I'm not good at memorizing). From there, I think it will be fairly easy to "translate" to odd scales like Hungarian Gypsy or Persian or whatever, should I get that ambitious, and it's very easy to translate from the syllables to notes if I need to, no matter what key I'm in. I'm finding my way as I go, but so far it's working.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

The way I learned the notes on the fretboard was by making it all about having fun. I would first learn a great chord or lick that I could use in a particular key and play the bejeebers out of it until it became a part of my DNA. Because I also associated that lick with its root note, that note also became memorized... without me even having to put in any effort at all.

I still teach folks how to do it that way and trust me, they're having loads of fun doing it.

Makes good sense, Toby. I have not been learning licks. Perhaps it's just because the style I'm learning -- solo fingerstyle, but not pattern picking or Travis picking -- doesn't lend itself to licks? I don't know for sure. I did have a teacher a few years ago who would show me "tricks" to play, which I guess were licks. But they were never written out. As soon as I got home, I'd lose the "trick"...even if I videoed him doing it, to watch later on my iPad, I couldn't see the fingering on the fretboard from the video angle, so again, the trick would not stick with me. I did sign up for your freebie lick of the month. You might be opening up a whole new world for me!

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Makes good sense, Toby. I have not been learning licks. Perhaps it's just because the style I'm learning -- solo fingerstyle, but not pattern picking or Travis picking -- doesn't lend itself to licks? I don't know for sure. I did have a teacher a few years ago who would show me "tricks" to play, which I guess were licks. But they were never written out. As soon as I got home, I'd lose the "trick"...even if I videoed him doing it, to watch later on my iPad, I couldn't see the fingering on the fretboard from the video angle, so again, the trick would not stick with me. I did sign up for your freebie lick of the month. You might be opening up a whole new world for me!

I would certainly say that solo fingerstyle picking can utilize the method of learning notes on the fingerboard in the same way that playing licks and/or chords can. Just keep aware of the root notes of the chord changes as you're playing the piece.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

I would certainly say that solo fingerstyle picking can utilize the method of learning notes on the fingerboard in the same way that playing licks and/or chords can. Just keep aware of the root notes of the chord changes as you're playing the piece.

Thanks, Toby. That's exactly what my teacher told me in yesterday's lesson. And...keep your eye on the bass notes (often the root is in the bass line).