What makes something classical?

[markblues]

What makes something classical? I'm never quite sure. If I play this jazz standard on a classical guitar, would it be classical?

[Bax Burgess]

Don't equate nylon strings with one genre. They cross all genres. Classical guitar is a generic, chosen name. It really is.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by markblues

What makes something classical? I'm never quite sure. If I play this jazz standard on a classical guitar, would it be classical?

nah it still is what it is, you're just using a nylon string to do it

Nice version tho.. I like what you did there.

[gcdcpakmbs]

Originally Posted by markblues

What makes something classical? I'm never quite sure. If I play this jazz standard on a classical guitar, would it be classical?

Classical music technically would be western civilization music written in the 'classical period' between about 1750 and about 1830. But I think more broadly it includes the Baroque and Romantic periods as well. Generally, western music that follows certain very solid musical principals.

I think the idea behind jazz is that the music flows from key to key, so the chords and scales consistently change throughout a piece. Generally a much more modern approach.

I don't know if any of that is right. It's just what I think. I would call what you just played beautiful. Just not classical.

[rick-slo]

To paraphrase Justice Stewart I know it when I hear it.

[Bob Womack]

To a certain extent I think it is simply a declaration. Let me explain. I studied classical composition in college. My professor of composition was an internationally-known classical composer. His compositions were in the Postmodern stream. If you remember the Modern stream: Richard Strauss, Arnold Schoenberg, Igor Stravinsky, even Maurice Ravel. They saw themselves in the progressive stream of the development of classical music. As you moved into Postmodernism, composers of that genre considered themselves the next step. "What can we do that is different from the previous step," was the question. This generation of composers was attempting to create something new but still something within the stream of classical music. It was an extremely self-conscious movement. For example, as part of my education I was required to compose pieces devoid of regular rhythm, melody, and harmony. These were an exploration of tension structure via "tonality," using tonal complexity and "gesture" as the developmental structures rather than the classic three characteristics. My pieces were received well at their premiers. From the outside, without an introduction, it might be hard to put your finger on exactly which genre they represented.

However, it may not be declared. Right now, probably the closest stream to classical music is film scoring. Scoring composers are able to use whatever styles are necessary to evoke a feeling, anything from imitation of previous styles to creating new ones. It is very reminiscent of the methods used by symphonic and ballet composers in the past.

So, let's look at an example of genre-jumping on a simple piece from the 1970s. What on earth is this?


It is a piece for classical guitar, mellotron, and bass. It isn't rock, though it is on a Prog record. It really isn't jazz because there it isn't a statement of a theme and subsequent development by improv. It feels more like an attempt to join the stream of classical to me. What do you think it is? I was recording the concertmaster (1st violinist) of the regional symphony with a quartet in my studio. He wanted to hear an example recording of a particular mic. The only example I had at hand was my performance of that piece, complete with the mellotron parts. He thought that it was a classical piece. Blurred lines.

Bob

[hesson11]

Not to complicate our semantics further, but isn't that a flamenco guitar? It looks and sounds like one. And while not classical music, many would consider that tune a classic. Okay, I'll stop. But I'd like to say nice job on the playing and the recording.

[rick-slo]

New age like, mood like, music but of short duration for those genres.

[markblues]

Thanks for all your comments. It's great that one person managed to spot that the guitar was indeed a flamenco guitar and not classical.

When I'm performing concerts (which now seems an age away since the outbreak) I have occasionally thrown in what many people would not consider to be classical music. However nobody has ever turned round and said that was not classical guitar playing. To my mind, and I don't disagree with any of the above comments at all, if you have a reputation as a classical guitarist whatever you do is seen as classical. Which is of course a little bit funny to say the least.

I consider myself simply a guitar player who plays in various styles. To me, I feel that the genre is simply the approach you take when executing the song.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by markblues

What makes something classical? I'm never quite sure. If I play this jazz standard on a classical guitar, would it be classical?

No, it would be a jazz standard.

In my opinion, “classical” music is a genre as others have stated.

“Classical guitar” is that genre played within a specific range of technique. That technique can be used to play other genres of music, but it doesn’t necessarily make it classical music. Similarly, playing something on a nylon string guitar doesn’t automatically make is it “classical guitar”.

[markblues]

I get your point. But fundamentally, if you can simplify music as simply a grouping of notes separated by time, what would actually distinguish one genre from another?

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

No, it would be a jazz standard.

In my opinion, “classical” music is a genre as others have stated.

“Classical guitar” is that genre played within a specific range of technique. That technique can be used to play other genres of music, but it doesn’t necessarily make it classical music. Similarly, playing something on a nylon string guitar doesn’t automatically make is it “classical guitar”.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by markblues

But fundamentally, if you can simplify music as simply a grouping of notes separated by time, what would actually distinguish one genre from another?

That’s a big if. Similar to saying one can simplify painting to applying colour to a substrate.

With that level of granularity, there is no distinction between different genres of music - or painting.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by markblues

But fundamentally, if you can simplify music as simply a grouping of notes separated by time, what would actually distinguish one genre from another?

Interesting viewpoint.
Some genres in western music are more distinct than others in the way they are put together, and sound. Blues, for example, and rock & roll another. Jazz, probably yet another.
Classical music is more diffuse, especially if you broaden the definition to include renaissance, baroque and romantic eras.
For example, many Bach inspired melodies and structure surface in modern compositions associated to different genres. Procol Harum's Whiter Shade Of Pale is a prominent example. That song may not thought of as "classical", but it shares a lot of its DNA.
Same with the opening of Stairway to Heaven. There's a lot of classical influence in that piece.
I'm sure there are many more examples. Lots of Beatles tunes I can think of.
Many modern acoustic based compositions by Michael Hedges.
So, when it comes to classical, the saying "you know it when you hear it" definitely applies, but it goes beyond that, since its tentacles run deeper into modern music than what it's usually credited for in terms of influence. Maybe not everywhere, but in many places.
Artists hear stuff. They absorb it, take it in a different direction, recreate it. It's all good.

[markblues]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

That’s a big if. Similar to saying one can simplify painting to applying colour to a substrate.

With that level of granularity, there is no distinction between different genres of music - or painting.

I do agree with you. However, I just constantly ask myself where the boundaries are between genres. Maybe I'm going round in circles but thanks to all for their input

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by markblues

However, I just constantly ask myself where the boundaries are

Why does it matter?

Each genre has a history and a lineage, one that reflects its time and place. (Art is a reflection of a culture at a particular time.) knowing a genre is to have some awareness and appreciation of its history, of its time and place and the culture that spawned it.

As Andre pointed out, there is a great deal of borrowing from various genres. If one is aware of the various backgrounds of different genres, one can recognize and appreciate the borrowing. A simple example is the Beatles song In My Life with its harpsichord-sounding solo Of Bach-like music. Music doesn’t have to stick to only one genre and can have elements borrowed from numerous styles.