#16
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Spruce (or anyone);
I thought double tops were laminates--two layers of something with something in between. But I'm not certain regarding the thought and could use some help in understanding the distinction. |
#17
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You know how some people's voices just carry?
Like, you're in a room with 30 people all having conversations, and you just hear the din of voices. But there's that one guy - even when you're on the opposite end of the crowd - you can just hear every word he says. Clearly. He's not louder, you just can hear him better. Projection.
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All things must pass, though some may pass like a kidney stone. |
#18
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Quote:
This is a pretty comprehensive discussion of the subject: https://www.classicguitar.com/the-or...le-top-guitar/ And an article presenting a dissenting view, which gets into some interesting thoughts about why the pursuit of volume for volume’s sake is not desirable. https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467 I’ve got some more thoughts on the subject of volume and projection (clearly two different, and quite distinct things) but I’ll hold off until I’m confident I can express them clearly
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Martin 0-16NY Emerald Amicus Emerald X20 Cordoba Stage Some of my tunes: https://youtube.com/user/eatswodo |
#19
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Thank you David--fascinating reading.
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#20
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I was the other person who has mentioned projection in relation to nylon strings lately. To me it also means volume, but it is mostly a feeling.
Some guitars you can touch lightly and they immediately start to sing. A guitar with less projection will put up a fight. It makes you work harder before it rewards you with a good tone. This is what I feel when I play nylon string carbon fiber guitars.
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Emerald X30 Emerald X20 Nylon Emerald X7 Nylon Rainsong Smokey SMH Outdoor Guitalele Taylor 522e 12-fret ✝ Gitane DG-560 nylon ✝ Alhambra 3C CW Eastman AR910CE Recording King RM-991 tricone resonator Recording King RK-G25 6-string banjo Thomann Irish Bouzouki M1089 |
#21
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I'll add this. There are three types of guitars. One has a "right here" presence. Two has an "out there" presence. Three has a "here and there" presence. Not an all inclusive answer but hopefully it helps your understanding.
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Waterloo WL-S, K & K mini Waterloo WL-S Deluxe, K & K mini Iris OG, 12 fret, slot head, K & K mini Follow The Yellow Brick Road |
#22
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The K21/22 not far behind.. |
#23
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Quote:
a) the player b) the audience c) everyone's pretty happy
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Martin 0-16NY Emerald Amicus Emerald X20 Cordoba Stage Some of my tunes: https://youtube.com/user/eatswodo |
#24
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Hi, I recently made this video, about projrctuion and such, I'm reakly not sure whether it will help of further confuse, but FWIW etc.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! |
#25
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Thanks, Andy, for a very informative video!
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Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom Martin D-18/UltraTonic Adamas I 2087GT-8 Ovation Custom Legend LX Guild F-212XL STD Huss & Dalton TD-R Taylor 717e Taylor 618e Taylor 614ce Larrivee D-50M/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Sunburst Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom RainSong BI-DR1000N2 Emerald X20 Yamaha FGX5 Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2 |
#26
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Excellent video Andy. Watched with avid interest and think this is the best I've seen on the topic. Thanks for taking the time making it!
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#27
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I'll take a slightly different view
On the word. The definition in regards To sound according to Webster is thus. "the ability to make a sound, especially the voice, heard at a distance." When using a large condenser mic In a bluegrass vocal arrangement One is taught to sing to the back of the room. When using a dynamic like a 58 One tends to project less and use The dynamic of the mic to project your voice. I think the word is strictly volume. Clarity is another aspect of performance. If I have a cedar top dread and an adirondack Dread in a loud bluegrass jam where Everyone is trying to be heard( we've all been there ) the guy playing a cedar guitar Will be playing harder to project the same Amt of sheer volume as the adi topped guitar. But the adi will be clearer less distorted or muddy. So although both guitars project the same Vol. The adi has more clarity at that vol. Folks in the back will hear both. But the adi will be perceived better. And the cedar will be part of the overall drone. . |
#28
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Electric instrument players talk about "cutting through the mix" - by which they mean an instrument can clearly be heard when surrounded by others, but not necessarily by being significantly louder (a top boost will definitely improve projection in most situations). Acoustic guitarists focus on those natural acoustic qualities of an instrument that enable it to be heard in the "herd". Ideally it will be coupled with a tonal balance that appeals to the player's ears. With a decent eq you can also often improve an acoustic guitar's projection in a given situation......
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#29
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Hi Evan, A double-top guitar actually has another top under the outer top. I remember seeing an article with photos in Vintage Guitar Magazine several years ago that featured a maker's double-top guitar. If I recall correctly, the inner top was honey-comb-like and may have been separated from the outer top by a small amount of airspace. I'm about to resubscribe to VGM and if I find that article I'll post it here.
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Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom Martin D-18/UltraTonic Adamas I 2087GT-8 Ovation Custom Legend LX Guild F-212XL STD Huss & Dalton TD-R Taylor 717e Taylor 618e Taylor 614ce Larrivee D-50M/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Sunburst Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom RainSong BI-DR1000N2 Emerald X20 Yamaha FGX5 Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2 |
#30
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Quote:
Some guitars like a Martin D-35 tend to have a rich soundscape that envelops a player but doesn't project forward out into a room as much as say a Martin HD-28 which still provides a goodly amount of immersive player listening experience. Other guitars like an Ovation are almost all forward projection out into a room with not too much immersive sound for the player. A player has to hang their head slightly over the front of the guitar to get a good immersive listening experience. I hope the above made some sense and helps to understand projection.
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Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom Martin D-18/UltraTonic Adamas I 2087GT-8 Ovation Custom Legend LX Guild F-212XL STD Huss & Dalton TD-R Taylor 717e Taylor 618e Taylor 614ce Larrivee D-50M/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi Larrivee D-40R Sunburst Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom RainSong BI-DR1000N2 Emerald X20 Yamaha FGX5 Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2 |