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  #16  
Old 11-09-2020, 04:14 PM
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Spruce (or anyone);

I thought double tops were laminates--two layers of something with something in between. But I'm not certain regarding the thought and could use some help in understanding the distinction.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2020, 04:43 PM
Willie_D Willie_D is offline
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You know how some people's voices just carry?

Like, you're in a room with 30 people all having conversations, and you just hear the din of voices. But there's that one guy - even when you're on the opposite end of the crowd - you can just hear every word he says. Clearly.

He's not louder, you just can hear him better.

Projection.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2020, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Spruce (or anyone);

I thought double tops were laminates--two layers of something with something in between. But I'm not certain regarding the thought and could use some help in understanding the distinction.
My somewhat uninformed impression was that double tops are ‘kind of’ that - but with one very important distinction. That is, that the centre layer is, most typically, a cellular nomex fabric, not a solid layer of wood (or something else). Otherwise, it’s just ‘laminated’.

This is a pretty comprehensive discussion of the subject:

https://www.classicguitar.com/the-or...le-top-guitar/

And an article presenting a dissenting view, which gets into some interesting thoughts about why the pursuit of volume for volume’s sake is not desirable.

https://www.guitarsalon.com/blog/?p=1467

I’ve got some more thoughts on the subject of volume and projection (clearly two different, and quite distinct things) but I’ll hold off until I’m confident I can express them clearly
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2020, 07:00 PM
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Thank you David--fascinating reading.
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2020, 05:24 AM
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I was the other person who has mentioned projection in relation to nylon strings lately. To me it also means volume, but it is mostly a feeling.

Some guitars you can touch lightly and they immediately start to sing. A guitar with less projection will put up a fight. It makes you work harder before it rewards you with a good tone.

This is what I feel when I play nylon string carbon fiber guitars.
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2020, 09:16 AM
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I'll add this. There are three types of guitars. One has a "right here" presence. Two has an "out there" presence. Three has a "here and there" presence. Not an all inclusive answer but hopefully it helps your understanding.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2020, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
I'll add this. There are three types of guitars. One has a "right here" presence. Two has an "out there" presence. Three has a "here and there" presence. Not an all inclusive answer but hopefully it helps your understanding.
You are describing my Kalamazoo 1930s K14 (for nr 3).
The K21/22 not far behind..
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2020, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
I'll add this. There are three types of guitars. One has a "right here" presence. Two has an "out there" presence. Three has a "here and there" presence. Not an all inclusive answer but hopefully it helps your understanding.
Or, to put it another way - who has the best seat in the house?

a) the player
b) the audience
c) everyone's pretty happy
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Old 11-27-2020, 02:47 PM
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Hi, I recently made this video, about projrctuion and such, I'm reakly not sure whether it will help of further confuse, but FWIW etc.

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  #25  
Old 11-27-2020, 03:09 PM
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Thanks, Andy, for a very informative video!
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Old 11-27-2020, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Hi, I recently made this video, about projrctuion and such, I'm reakly not sure whether it will help of further confuse, but FWIW etc.

Excellent video Andy. Watched with avid interest and think this is the best I've seen on the topic. Thanks for taking the time making it!
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Old 12-18-2020, 09:16 AM
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I'll take a slightly different view
On the word. The definition in regards
To sound according to Webster is thus.
"the ability to make a sound, especially the voice, heard at a distance."
When using a large condenser mic
In a bluegrass vocal arrangement
One is taught to sing to the back of the room.
When using a dynamic like a 58
One tends to project less and use
The dynamic of the mic to project your voice.
I think the word is strictly volume.
Clarity is another aspect of performance.
If I have a cedar top dread and an adirondack
Dread in a loud bluegrass jam where
Everyone is trying to be heard( we've all been there ) the guy playing a cedar guitar
Will be playing harder to project the same
Amt of sheer volume as the adi topped guitar.
But the adi will be clearer less distorted or muddy.
So although both guitars project the same
Vol. The adi has more clarity at that vol.
Folks in the back will hear both.
But the adi will be perceived better.
And the cedar will be part of the overall drone.

.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2020, 02:21 AM
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Electric instrument players talk about "cutting through the mix" - by which they mean an instrument can clearly be heard when surrounded by others, but not necessarily by being significantly louder (a top boost will definitely improve projection in most situations). Acoustic guitarists focus on those natural acoustic qualities of an instrument that enable it to be heard in the "herd". Ideally it will be coupled with a tonal balance that appeals to the player's ears. With a decent eq you can also often improve an acoustic guitar's projection in a given situation......
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2020, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Spruce (or anyone);

I thought double tops were laminates--two layers of something with something in between. But I'm not certain regarding the thought and could use some help in understanding the distinction.
Hi Evan, A double-top guitar actually has another top under the outer top. I remember seeing an article with photos in Vintage Guitar Magazine several years ago that featured a maker's double-top guitar. If I recall correctly, the inner top was honey-comb-like and may have been separated from the outer top by a small amount of airspace. I'm about to resubscribe to VGM and if I find that article I'll post it here.
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2020, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
I have to make a confession. I’ve been reading for ages here from several contributors about a given guitar’s ability to ‘project’.

I’ve gradually come to the realization that I have no idea what it means.

I’d love to get some enlightenment. So, if projection is important to you, could you do me a favour and let me know what it signifies to you, and what criteria you use to assess its quality (if that’s the right word)?

I’m asking in this sub-forum specifically, because it seems to come up here a bit more often than in the general areas.
I'll give the projection thing a try:

Some guitars like a Martin D-35 tend to have a rich soundscape that envelops a player but doesn't project forward out into a room as much as say a Martin HD-28 which still provides a goodly amount of immersive player listening experience.

Other guitars like an Ovation are almost all forward projection out into a room with not too much immersive sound for the player. A player has to hang their head slightly over the front of the guitar to get a good immersive listening experience.

I hope the above made some sense and helps to understand projection.
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