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  #16  
Old 08-24-2020, 04:05 PM
FrankHS FrankHS is offline
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Traditional dictionary editors publish every year either what a word means, historically, or what a word has recently become to mean. And they then endorse accordingly! So, maybe classical music is merely what most people SAY is classical music. (Regardless what you think.)
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2020, 05:41 PM
chuckv97 chuckv97 is offline
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John Williams used to play Joplin’s “The Entertainer” as an encore piece.
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  #18  
Old 08-25-2020, 03:15 AM
markblues markblues is offline
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Originally Posted by FrankHS View Post
Traditional dictionary editors publish every year either what a word means, historically, or what a word has recently become to mean. And they then endorse accordingly! So, maybe classical music is merely what most people SAY is classical music. (Regardless what you think.)
I entirely agree. I think in the case of guitar, the word classical is now fluid
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2020, 08:21 AM
SBalderrama SBalderrama is offline
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until Segovia and others popularized the nylon string guitar with classical music, I'm pretty sure nobody called nylon/gut string acoustics "classical." And then the steel string acoustics popularity for everything but classical and flamenco made everyone start associating the "Spanish" style nylon guitar with that genre niche.

Of course, those of us that play them know that "classical" guitars are so much more than that.
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  #20  
Old 09-12-2020, 07:29 AM
markblues markblues is offline
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Originally Posted by SBalderrama View Post
until Segovia and others popularized the nylon string guitar with classical music, I'm pretty sure nobody called nylon/gut string acoustics "classical." And then the steel string acoustics popularity for everything but classical and flamenco made everyone start associating the "Spanish" style nylon guitar with that genre niche.

Of course, those of us that play them know that "classical" guitars are so much more than that.
Very interesting perspective. I think that solves the issue for men
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  #21  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:22 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is online now
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
To a certain extent I think it is simply a declaration. Let me explain. I studied classical composition in college. My professor of composition was an internationally-known classical composer. His compositions were in the Postmodern stream. If you remember the Modern stream: Richard Strauss, Arnold Schoenberg, Igor Stravinsky, even Maurice Ravel. They saw themselves in the progressive stream of the development of classical music. As you moved into Postmodernism, composers of that genre considered themselves the next step. "What can we do that is different from the previous step," was the question. This generation of composers was attempting to create something new but still something within the stream of classical music. It was an extremely self-conscious movement. For example, as part of my education I was required to compose pieces devoid of regular rhythm, melody, and harmony. These were an exploration of tension structure via "tonality," using tonal complexity and "gesture" as the developmental structures rather than the classic three characteristics. My pieces were received well at their premiers. From the outside, without an introduction, it might be hard to put your finger on exactly which genre they represented.

However, it may not be declared. Right now, probably the closest stream to classical music is film scoring. Scoring composers are able to use whatever styles are necessary to evoke a feeling, anything from imitation of previous styles to creating new ones. It is very reminiscent of the methods used by symphonic and ballet composers in the past.

So, let's look at an example of genre-jumping on a simple piece from the 1970s. What on earth is this?


It is a piece for classical guitar, mellotron, and bass. It isn't rock, though it is on a Prog record. It really isn't jazz because there it isn't a statement of a theme and subsequent development by improv. It feels more like an attempt to join the stream of classical to me. What do you think it is? I was recording the concertmaster (1st violinist) of the regional symphony with a quartet in my studio. He wanted to hear an example recording of a particular mic. The only example I had at hand was my performance of that piece, complete with the mellotron parts. He thought that it was a classical piece. Blurred lines.

Bob
Bob, sitting here beside my wife, I played the YouTube in your post, and then asked her what kind of music she would call it. Without seeing my iPad, she said “some kind of water music”.

Hmmmmm........
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2020, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ceciltguitar View Post
Bob, sitting here beside my wife, I played the YouTube in your post, and then asked her what kind of music she would call it. Without seeing my iPad, she said “some kind of water music”.
Hmmmmm........
Interesting!

Bob
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2020, 11:20 AM
Lorilee Lorilee is offline
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Bear in mind that Willie Nelson plays a classical guitar named "Bullet." His music is classic but not classical!
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2020, 09:58 PM
Always Learning Always Learning is offline
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"What makes something classical? I'm never quite sure. If I play this jazz standard on a classical guitar, would it be classical?"

I guess the term "classical" in reference to music played on the typical "classical” or "Spanish" guitar and written for it probably refers to music written anywhere from the Medieval period up and into the mid to late 1800s or even early 1900s.

Now as an example: if you mean is "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas" played on a classical guitar "Classical"?... nah, I think a piece like that is what most people would likely call a "Classic"... (drop the "al")

Jazz is a modern style of music which is very improvisational and usually built on several chords and scales and played openly as in a "Jam Session". But there again Jazz I believe would fall under the umbrella of "A Modern Classic", not "classical"... example: Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" is a prime example of a "Classic" jazz piece but it's not what I would consider a "classical" music piece.

Most “Classical” music follows very tight and structured measures written by the composers and not open to improvisational interpretation. Yes there are nuances in how a note may be sounded, but most players follow and play each measure as written by the composer.

I have a Joe Pass Hollow body "Jazz" guitar. If I play a piece written by Ferdnando Sor, or Isaac Albeniz or a piece such as "Recuerdos De La Alhambra" by Francisco Tarrega on that jazz guitar... it's not jazz, it's "classical".

I may be totally wrong in my interpretation of the term "classical", but that's how I see it and how I classify a certain piece as either "Classical" or a "Classic".

Oh and Lorilee, I once owned a Martin 0028C, similar to Willie's and loved it, nice 630mm scale, a great student model. I picked it up almost "brand spanking new" in a pawn shop in 1972 and paid a whopping $250 for it, with hard case. I am so sorry I ever sold it.

Last edited by Always Learning; 09-28-2020 at 10:15 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-28-2020, 10:16 PM
Always Learning Always Learning is offline
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"What makes something classical? I'm never quite sure. If I play this jazz standard on a classical guitar, would it be classical?"

I guess the term "classical" in reference to music played on the typical "classical” or "Spanish" guitar and maybe written for it probably refers to music written anywhere from the Medieval period up and into the mid to late 1800s or even early 1900s.

Now if you mean is "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas" played on a classical guitar "Classical"... nah, I think a piece like that is what most would call a "Classic"... (drop the "al")

Jazz is a modern style of music which is very improvisational and usually built on several chords and scales and played openly as in a "Jam Session". But there again Jazz I believe would fall under the umbrella of "A Modern Classic"... Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" is a prime example of a "Classic" jazz piece but it's not what I would consider a "classical" music piece.

Most “Classical” music follows very tight and structured measures written by the composers and not open to improvisational interpretation.

I have a Joe Pass Hollow body "Jazz" guitar. If I play a piece written by Ferdnando Sor, or Isaac Albeniz or a piece such as "Recuerdos De La Alhambra" by Francisco Tarrega on that jazz guitar... it's not jazz, it's "classical".

I may be totally wrong in my interpretation of "classical", but that's how I see it and how I classify acertain piece as either "Classical" or a "Classic".
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  #26  
Old 09-29-2020, 08:50 AM
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Lets say I'm playing a dread old time country sounding I - IV - V chords and want to put in a classical sounding bridge. What would I do?
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2020, 09:17 PM
Rapido Eduwardo Rapido Eduwardo is offline
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I would call that pop. Anyway, very nice job. I do enjoy that kind of music.
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