Singing- I can't hear my own voice! Anyone else?

[vindibona1]

At the sake of sounding immodest, I have really good ears. Hearing pitch is not a problem and can even identify when a pitch is off by just a few cents. BUT I CANNOT HEAR MYSELF WHEN I SING. I even have difficulty at times when I play trumpet, but usually have the advantage there with my sound bouncing off the music stand. I know my pipes aren't very good for singing and it is a major effort to get any kind of decent tone out. But if I could hear myself I could adjust and maybe do an adequate job of harmony (if I'd bother to learn the words- saved for another day ). Add a some sound, noise, music, other voices and I have no idea what's coming out of my mouth.

Something interesting happened to me some time ago when I was getting fitted for musicians' ear plugs. The audiologist filled my ears with a waxy substance to create a mold. I could hear almost nothing except the sound in my head. In this odd situation I just started to sing for the fun of it. My GF, in the room with me, remarked that my voice was 100% better than it usually is and that it actually sounded good! With my ears totally clogged with the wax I could hear the resonance in my head and automatically adjust the pitch to sing more in tune. But without my ears plugged up, I my voice is lost to me.

I've had major sinus issues since I was a kid and can believe that most good singers must have a lot of resonance going on in their head which allows them to hear themselves as well as really contribute to tone. Because of chronic congestion my head has about as much resonance as a concrete Telecaster body. I've thought of having surgery, but the docs say that they would have to basically slice my face off to get to the septums which could end my trumpet playing for a very long time, if not forever. I digress...

So, does anyone have any words of wisdom for me to encourage me to pursue singing more? TIA.

[Mr. Jelly]

So can you hear yourself when you sing out of tune?

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

So can you hear yourself when you sing out of tune?

If there are no competing sounds I can hear myself sing out of tune. Once there are other things making sounds, music whatever around me I can't hear my voice at all unless I plug up one ear and then can sort of hear myself. When I play trumpet, if I'm doubling someone else as is normal with concert bands I'll plug one ear just so I'm not confusing my pitch with someone else's. In trumpet I much prefer not trying to play unison with anyone else so I don't have to struggle to determine if I'm in or out of tune.

So again, how hard it is for most folks to hear themselves while singing with more than soft background or other voices?

[Pitar]

Interesting. I've never known anyone who could not discern pitch or qualitative issues with their own voice so this is new to me. Regarding your pondering if others can hear their own vocal resonance, yes, I think I can say that I can. I probably would not have given it a thought if you didn't bring this thread up.

Encouragement to sing? I never gave that a thought, either. I love to sing and play. No encouragement needed there. Just sing and play and have fun with it.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Interesting. I've never known anyone who could not discern pitch or qualitative issues with their own voice so this is new to me.

Please understand that I can hear pitch and (not so wonderful) qualitative aspects of my voice- but as long as it's quiet enough around me. As soon as the sound level comes up I can't hear myself well enough to place the pitches where they need to be, but know that others do it regularly without issue. I can hear myself as long as I can sing louder than anything else making music.

Plugging my ears helps to some degree, but I'm wondering why I need to do that? Again, my head, due to my sinus condition feels like a block of cement, solid. Not hollow and resonant. Any resonance I can create in my nasal cavities is limited. To some extent it's a problem playing trumpet as all my resonance comes from my oral cavity and chest. My trumpet sound isn't as warm and resonant as I'd like, but the horn and mouthpiece help me compensate to an extent. But I know there is *something* that others have that I do not to be able to create a decent tone.

[jseth]

Well, there's "the sound level coming up" and then there's "the sound level COMING UP"!

I can hear myself just fine in normal applications - I sing and play acoustic guitar (6 and 12 string) mostly... but I also play an electric guitar, as well... unless the volume threshold gets PLENTY loud, I can hear myself sing without a problem...

But put me at a gig, with a noisy room full of people eating and drinking and chatting, have my guitar into a PA or amp and me singing without any amplification? Not gonna hear myself too well. Matter of fact, my least favorite way to play and sing is to NOT be able to hear my guitar or voice very well, if at all...

If you lose track of your voice in a jazz combo, at volume, and you're trying to sing some standards, I wouldn't think it would easy to hear yourself sing...

You might try the old back-up singer's trick: place your fingertip over one ear press it partially into the ear lightly... sort of "half plugging" your ear. I've known many singers who will do that to be able to hear their voices/harmonies better.

[Clallam]

Originally Posted by jseth

You might try the old back-up singer's trick: place your fingertip over one ear press it partially into the ear lightly... sort of "half plugging" your ear. I've known many singers who will do that to be able to hear their voices/harmonies better.

This is really common at all levels of singing. I've been in choir rehearsals where half the people in the room were plugging an ear when they found a passage difficult. I used to be a bit embarrassed about being one of the people who was always doing it until I saw a Three Tenors rehearsal video with two of them doing it. If it works for a world class singer it will work for the rest of us.

[Mr. Jelly]

Can you feel the resonance of your voice as you sing? Would it be possible to feel that the vibrations of you voice are in tune with the vibration of the root note or chord that is being played?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Please understand that I can hear pitch and (not so wonderful) qualitative aspects of my voice- but as long as it's quiet enough around me. As soon as the sound level comes up I can't hear myself well enough to place the pitches where they need to be, but know that others do it regularly without issue. I can hear myself as long as I can sing louder than anything else making music.

Plugging my ears helps to some degree, but I'm wondering why I need to do that? Again, my head, due to my sinus condition feels like a block of cement, solid. Not hollow and resonant. Any resonance I can create in my nasal cavities is limited. To some extent it's a problem playing trumpet as all my resonance comes from my oral cavity and chest. My trumpet sound isn't as warm and resonant as I'd like, but the horn and mouthpiece help me compensate to an extent. But I know there is *something* that others have that I do not to be able to create a decent tone.

Your experience is very common. You hear your vocal pitch just fine when coming via your head itself, when the route from your mouth via the air is blocked.

As mentioned above, it's a common technique for singers to block one ear to help stay in tune in noisy environments - you don't need to block both. Of course if both hands are occupied in playing guitar (or anything else) you'd need an earplug.

What you may also see - especially in unaccompanied folk singing (even when environments are not noisy) - is singers cupping behind the ear, angling the ear forward, which helps focus the sound coming via the air from your mouth, like creating a satellite dish! You can really hear you own voice as it sounds to others this way. Again, no use if both hands are playing an instrument!

The other way to hear your own voice accurately (which you can do while playing) is to sing into the corner of a room, to get your voice reflected back.
Naturally, you can't do that on stage (!), hence the common use these days by rock and pop singers of in-ear monitors, taking the sound from the microphone (as well as other sounds for the singer to tune to).

[RustyAxe]

I'm a singer, and I found just opposite. I HATE in-ear monitors because I hear the resonance in my head as I sing. I don't use 'em if I don't have to. A pair of "cans" while recording is fine, though. More "air", I suppose.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Can you feel the resonance of your voice as you sing? Would it be possible to feel that the vibrations of you voice are in tune with the vibration of the root note or chord that is being played?

I can't really feel much resonance. As I said, my head feels like cement.

I think some of the problem comes from "bad pipes". I can't get much going in the way of resonance. Some folks seem to get by with bad pipes; Bob Dylan and Willy Nelson come to mind (can't think of a female singer with bad pipes who's made it) but I marvel at the sounds that a singers like Stephani Germanotta or Michael Buble or so many others who just "have it".

I guess my bottom line question is; Is there any hope, or am I just destined to be paid NOT to sing?

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Please understand that I can hear pitch and (not so wonderful) qualitative aspects of my voice- but as long as it's quiet enough around me. As soon as the sound level comes up I can't hear myself well enough to place the pitches where they need to be, but know that others do it regularly without issue. I can hear myself as long as I can sing louder than anything else making music.

Plugging my ears helps to some degree, but I'm wondering why I need to do that? Again, my head, due to my sinus condition feels like a block of cement, solid. Not hollow and resonant. Any resonance I can create in my nasal cavities is limited. To some extent it's a problem playing trumpet as all my resonance comes from my oral cavity and chest. My trumpet sound isn't as warm and resonant as I'd like, but the horn and mouthpiece help me compensate to an extent. But I know there is *something* that others have that I do not to be able to create a decent tone.

Capice.

Re-grouping, I think that ambient noise levels will mess with anyone to a certain extent. I'm just guessing there because I've never been in a situation that drowned my inner ear with noise. I'm strictly solo and the only noise is my own. But, I'm always plugged and monitoring so I hear what needs to be heard pretty well.

[Mr. Jelly]

Are you singing from your diaphragm? Projecting while pushing air, singing out or throat singing?

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

I guess my bottom line question is; Is there any hope, or am I just destined to be paid NOT to sing?

Only a vocal coach would be able to tell you that. And I suspect they'd say of course there's hope, anyone's voice can be trained (and not just because they want your money for trying ).
Only a qualified teacher listening to you can determine what the issue is, and advise how to fix it.

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Capice.

Re-grouping, I think that ambient noise levels will mess with anyone to a certain extent. I'm just guessing there because I've never been in a situation that drowned my inner ear with noise. I'm strictly solo and the only noise is my own. But, I'm always plugged and monitoring so I hear what needs to be heard pretty well.

I'm sure monitors would help. I just have difficulty hearing myself while singing. Last night at band rehearsal with percussion right behind me at one point I had to plug both hears to hear myself. In fact there was a fluegelhorn sitting next to me and his sound was making my ears ring so I couldn't hear myself at all.

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Are you singing from your diaphragm? Projecting while pushing air, singing out or throat singing?

I'm a trained semi-professional trumpet player so of course I know how to inhale properly. But not sure what's supposed to happen on the exhale. When you play trumpet there is resistance, both from the small tubular thing you blow into and the tonal resistance of the instrument. I think I'd have a better idea if I were a flute player with no resistance past the lips.

Where and how is the air supposed to engage the vocal cords? I think this is one of my conceptual deficiencies.

Originally Posted by JonPR

Only a vocal coach would be able to tell you that. And I suspect they'd say of course there's hope, anyone's voice can be trained (and not just because they want your money for trying ).
Only a qualified teacher listening to you can determine what the issue is, and advise how to fix it.

I suppose you're right. I found Ken Tamplin's site and went through one of the basic exercises with the tape and thought I did ok. Pitch was pretty good and the sound he was modeling was much different than I anticipated. I just need to find a place to practicing singing where my neighbors aren't going to complain. Thanks.