V-bracing and Taylor's Marketing Machine... so NOT impressed.

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Aren't you the least bit curious why a man with that level of expertise flubbed that portion? Maybe he was just caught up in the moment?

Yeah actually I am. I’m very impressed with his work and ability. Just don’t understood this one.

[Picker2]

Originally Posted by Goat Whiskey Picks

...I still think Mr. Powers could have used a much better term and eliminated a lot of confusion.

I agree with you, but it's more than just a careless formulation I'm afraid. In the V-Class in Action video, Danny raider says at 0:18 that "Every note is perfectly in tune, all the way up..." and the whole video is about playing chords high up the neck and the 'magic' that appears. They clearly do their very best to convince us the V-bracing improves intonation problems up the neck.

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by Picker2

I agree with you, but it's more than just a careless formulation I'm afraid. In the V-Class in Action video, Danny raider says at 0:18 that "Every note is perfectly in tune, all the way up..." and the whole video is about playing chords high up the neck and the 'magic' that appears. They clearly do their very best to convince us the V-bracing improves intonation problems up the neck.

That’s why I want to play one before passing judgement.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Texsunburst59

To me this would be WAY more of a shot at Martin than Taylor.

They're the ones that have been around over a hundred years and have the old craftsman guitar making in their history.

As far as I know Taylor has never sold $100,000 acoustics like Martin's Authentic Series guitars.

Definitely a stab at Martin cork sniffing.



Go ahead and laugh Martin fan boy's

Huh? I thought it was just a parody to demonstrate the ridiculousness of modern-day business ideas and even more ridiculous marketing methods used to promote them? Maybe the fact that people lots of money will spend it on literally anything??

Not sure what Martin guitars has to do with any of this, and I'm certainly unaware that there are Martins out there with corks in them?

[jwayne]

Originally Posted by Ed-in-Ohio

Calling thousands (tens of thousands?, hundreds of thousands?, more?) of your guitars now sitting in the showrooms and on-line inventories of your faithful dealers "obsolete" really does seem like a questionable strategy.

An improvement in a product does not make previous iterations obsolete. I'm not sure why folks here are suggesting that this is a consequence of Taylor's hyping of their new bracing system.

[Texsunburst59]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

Huh? I thought it was just a parody to demonstrate the ridiculousness of modern-day business ideas and even more ridiculous marketing methods used to promote them? Maybe the fact that people lots of money will spend it on literally anything??

Not sure what Martin guitars has to do with any of this, and I'm certainly unaware that there are Martins out there with corks in them?

The OP took a shot a Taylor, and I thought if any guitar maker, it'd be aimed more at Martin with their $100K guitars.

[tadol]

It’s a design well suited to CNC manufacturing and automated assembly, and possibly to obtaining a patent, as many believe a patent means something is better - it may sound very good as well, but until there are a bunch out there to try, and general players can judge their consistency, it’s pretty pointless to guess about. But its always been one of the greatest challenges to get even-ness and volume at the same time - with all the improvements in electronics, opting for a well balanced instrument is probably the easiest option. Personally, I don’t think the design will offer as much dynamic range, or the range of attack and tone that a really great guitar offers - but I’m sure they’ll look fantastic -

If one of their marketing goals was to try and get players who had decided that Taylor was not a sound they were particularly interested in to try them again, I think they’ve succeeded. But they still won’t be offering anything that would make me consider replacing one of my Santa Cruz’s -

[SongwriterFan]

I think Andy must be using the word "intonation" differently than *I* use it (and probably most other guitarists).

I think of that word as meaning how the FUNDAMENTAL frequency of each note on the fretboard (coming from the strings) must increase precisely by 2 raised to the 1/12 power as related to the half-step below it. That's how "equal temperament" intonation works. Period. At least by my definition.

How the top and its bracing might affect all of the actual frequencies (including harmonics) that get generated by the fundamental note from the string is an entirely different subject, and isn't really about intonation. IMO.

[jpd]

I'm still waiting to see charts showing the pros and cons of ...forward shifted x bracing, and back-shifted x bracing

[Petty1818]

To the OP, Taylor has been marketing this way for years. I am not really sure why you are all of a sudden shocked by it? Just look at the Expression System, which first came out around 10 years ago now. When it was first introduced, Taylor went nuts with marketing. It was the new revolutionary pickup! They even got Rupert Neves onboard and created the K4 preamp, which was also promoted like crazy. What happened? The expression system ended up getting two more updates because of a poorly designed first version (all of which were marketed as the next big thing), the K4 was pretty much forgotten and then the ES2 came out with all of the same hype and marketing.

Bringing Andy onboard has just been the next big step for them. They market him as this luthier who is is a miracle worker. In reality, when they started redesigning the 800's and the remaining models, Andy wasn't doing anything revolutionary, even though Taylor marketed it this way. This new bracing seems cool enough and I applaud them for trying something new but at the end of the day, it's just another flavour, it's not going to replace the bracing that manufacturers have used for years.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by jpd

I'm still waiting to see charts showing the pros and cons of ...forward shifted x bracing, and back-shifted x bracing

At least nobody claimed those changes affected "intonation". As far as I know.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Here's a video of Andy Powers being asked, and answering this exact question:

[pleasurepaul]

So, you mean that this is at the Taylor level. Pfff, get real. Just make sure you find the best specimen of a V-braced guitar, test it, and then speak again.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Originally Posted by jwayne

An improvement in a product does not make previous iterations obsolete. I'm not sure why folks here are suggesting that this is a consequence of Taylor's hyping of their new bracing system.

I'm pretty sure I heard the word "obsolete" being used to reference traditional bracing compared to the new V-bracing in a video from NAMM yesterday, but now I can't find it. However, there is this video, with the following comments from Andy Powers. Not as critical, but still unfortunate to hear if you just spent several thousand dollars on a Taylor.

"It's painful to go backwards! You get use to this... and say, 'Oh Man, I don't want to give that up!'"

"There are things you have worked around, and once those barriers are taken away..."



and in this video, "...a level of 'in-tuneness' that we haven't had before." So, all previous Taylor guitars aren't really in tune high on the fretboard?



Again, I don't have a horse in this race, and I'm a pretty big Taylor fan over all, but I must admit, I am also glad I hadn't decided to buy a "lifetime" Taylor guitar up to this point.

Oh, I should add that both these videos are great, and Powers is clearly enthusiastic about the new bracing!

[pleasurepaul]

Braving and intonation. Bracing influences top resonance frequency. If that resonance frequency happens to be close to a scale note (dependant on the chosen reference pitch of course), the top's resonance can push that note off pitch, leading to an intonation problem. So a bracing system can only improve intonation when it is able to move the top's resonance peak to a place right between scale notes. That needs specific tuning of the braces, and is not related to a general bracing layout. That is the way I understand it. And then there's main air and back resonance as well. See Trevor Gore.