Thanks all - Amateur recording horrible-ness solved!

fazool · #1 03-01-2017, 09:53 AM

I play just for love of music. I don't perform and have no need for real recording.

Recently I decided to try some very basic recording. My only purpose was to capture some ideas while playing, maybe save a cover for posterity and critique my own playing. If it sounds good I might post one, but nothing serious.

I bought a USB condensor mic that was garbage.

Since then I used my cell phone to get a sense for how a piece I was learning sounded. The audio quality of my cell phone was terrific. Only there is this annoying baseline hum.

Then I tried my nice DSLR but the internal mic wasn't as good as my phone.

So, I bought a vey cheap CAD U37 usb mic and it was total garbage, I listened to a recording and was horrified at how BAD it made my guitar sound. The mic sensitivity is so poor there is no sustain no overtones nothing. No bass or mids - it sounds plinky like a toy birch archtop. I tried every setting and placement of the mic and it's garbage.

I know a real recording requires a "real" mic but for my type of purposes it's frustrating to think one needs to drop $200 just for those purposes. And amn, anything less sounds horrible.

Bob Womack · #2 03-01-2017, 10:34 AM

Hmmm...

We've got a lovely 1950s Neumann U47 here at the studio. It was given to us by the wife of a rather well-off man after his death in 1983(ish). It seems that he decided to go into recording as a hobby at the end of the 1950s so he asked around and bought the best gear money could buy, the U47 and an Ampex tape recorder. After about four hours of trying he discovered that the best gear couldn't guarantee a professional product. He put the stuff in his closet where it was discovered after his death. There's a lesson in there, somewhere.

When I first entered the recording profession back in 1981 with my head absolutely splitting with the latest knowledge that college could teach me, I was thrilled to be surrounded by absolutely top-of-the-line equipment, including the very best Neve consoles. It took me a while to hone my art and craft until I was as thrilled with it.

There's a quality line out there below which gear is so cheap you can't get anything useful out of it. Darned if I know exactly where that line is. I have heard decent recordings of guitar done with $70 large-diaphragm condensers through reasonable ($500) preamp/interfaces, but darn, that still adds up to $570 dollars, doesn't it? Then you still need a computer and software to record. But for your info, here is the example that I refer to and have up on my web page featuring an Audient id22 and an MXL 67G on the acoustic:

If it is any consolation, I am a recording engineer/producer by trade and work at a studio. Even I find home recording, um... taxing.

Bob

Doug Young · #3 03-01-2017, 10:49 AM

Just buying different mics is unlikely to help, unless what you've tried is truly awful.

My suggestion for someone trying to get started with basic home recording is one of the little self-contained recorders. I'm most familiar with the Zoom's but there are others. They can be had for $100-400, depending on the model. They are like point and shoot cameras - and I mean that in a good way - you will get a guaranteed decent recording, just by pushing the red button. The quality will depend on your room acoustics (the biggest obstacle to home recording) but beyond that, you should be all set with minimal effort, learning curve, etc. These things serve as a great baseline - if you can't get a good recording with one, something else is wrong that getting other gear won't help. Once you can get a good recording with one, you can start to think about whether you want to "move up" to fancier gear and more profesional results.

Check out this recording by Fran Guidry, audio recorded with just a Zoom H6 sitting a few feet out in front in in his living room:

Yamaha Man · #4 03-01-2017, 11:09 AM

Ya listen to Doug Young and get a Zoom...otherwise you'll be getting into expensive mics, rooms, stands, shock mounts, pre-amps, compressors, software, computers, the list goes on and on for pro grade recordings. For a quick one off, the Zooms are probably your cheapest way out for a decent recording.

DavidE · #5 03-01-2017, 11:12 AM

Do you have an iPhone or iPad? If so, download the free apple app "Music Memo". It sounds surprisingly good and it will add bass and drums automatically what to you play if you'd like.

fazool · #6 03-01-2017, 11:17 AM

Thanks Doug - that's great expert advice. Funny - I just watched your review of the DPA 4099 clip on and it sounded great. But I saw the price ($600) and got quite scared away. I love the portable all-in-one idea. I considered such but wasn't sure if the quality is there. I think I will start shopping for one....thanks again

Yamaha Man · #7 03-01-2017, 11:17 AM

I'm reading a lot of good things about the Zoom Q2 audio and video recorder for $159 !!

Yamaha Man · #8 03-01-2017, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Hmmm...

We've got a lovely 1950s Neumann U47 here at the studio. It was given to us by the wife of a rather well-off man after his death in 1983(ish). It seems that he decided to go into recording as a hobby at the end of the 1950s so he asked around and bought the best gear money could buy, the U47 and an Ampex tape recorder. After about four hours of trying he discovered that the best gear couldn't guarantee a professional product. He put the stuff in his closet where it was discovered after his death. There's a lesson in there, somewhere.

When I first entered the recording profession back in 1981 with my head absolutely splitting with the latest knowledge that college could teach me, I was thrilled to be surrounded by absolutely top-of-the-line equipment, including the very best Neve consoles. It took me a while to hone my art and craft until I was as thrilled with it.

There's a quality line out there below which gear is so cheap you can't get anything useful out of it. Darned if I know exactly where that line is. I have heard decent recordings of guitar done with $70 large-diaphragm condensers through reasonable ($500) preamp/interfaces, but darn, that still adds up to $570 dollars, doesn't it? Then you still need a computer and software to record. But for your info, here is the example that I refer to and have up on my web page featuring an Audient id22 and an MXL 67G on the acoustic:

If it is any consolation, I am a recording engineer/producer by trade and work at a studio. Even I find home recording, um... taxing.

Bob

Sorry Bob, but that's the demo video for the MXL Revolution mic.

fazool · #9 03-01-2017, 11:23 AM

The H6 might be overkill for my simple uses - how does the H1 sound?

Bob Womack · #10 03-01-2017, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Maniac

Sorry Bob, but that's the demo video for the MXL Revolution mic.

Check out the mic on the guitar. MXL V67G.

Bob

Yamaha Man · #11 03-01-2017, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Check out the mic on the guitar. MXL V67G.

Bob

I stand corrected.

Fairlight · #12 03-01-2017, 12:54 PM

Just get a Zoom H5 and get on with recording and sharing your sounds. Truly excellent mics (with other interchangeable options) for live recording. The unit can also be used as an audio interface into a computer as well.

reeve21 · #13 03-01-2017, 01:17 PM

Thanks for starting this thread, fazool. I'm in the same quandary. There are a lot of recording threads to look at but they all seem to get real technical. And thanks for warning me off a cheap usb mic, I had been considering that.

As a cheap stopgap I am using an old iphone with a Tascom dual condenser mic that plugs right in to the phone.

https://www.riffcityguitaroutlet.com...FR1XDQod-5INSQ

I use it with voice record pro and I guess it is adequate. A lot depends on the room and the mic placement. I just checked out DavidE's suggestion of Apple's music memos app, which looks to be a step up from the app I am using. No overdubbing or editing with either as best I can tell.

I'm pretty impressed with what I read about the Zoom. I like being independent of the computer if I want to be. Pretty sure that is how I will go when/if I decide to upgrade.

Good luck and keep us posted.

fazool · #14 03-01-2017, 01:38 PM

I spent some lunch time online today researching Zoom devices.

I don't need multi track capabilities so an H1 is ideal for me and it's the lowest priced unit.

I also got into a nice DSLR last year and saw a lot of ways to use this as the audio source for recording digital videos (like kids school concerts etc) so I am picking up an H1 on the way home from work today. Looking forward to trying it out.

Fairlight · #15 03-01-2017, 02:24 PM

Just know that in your effort to go cheaper on a handheld device, you will notice a huge difference in sound quality. Here's a simple demo between the H1 and H6 mics. Just because it's a Zoom, doesn't mean all their units sound the same. I'd really encourage you to invest in a Zoom that has the XYH-6 XY capsule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvTl7Cmqcx8